Uvalde - the followup

Bill requiring liability insurance for gun owners advances to full Senate

by: Gabrielle Franklin

Gun legislation continues to advance at the Colorado Capitol before lawmakers wrap up for the year. A bill requiring gun owners to insure their guns cleared another hurdle Wednesday.

The bill took a big step by advancing to the Senate floor. Groups opposing the measure say if it becomes law, it will likely face legal challenges.

“Colorado has been a leader in a number of policy areas. I think gun safety is one of them,” said state Sen. Chris Hansen.

Hansen is hoping Colorado continues to lead on gun policy by passing a new bill he is sponsoring requiring gun owners to get insurance coverage for their firearms.

“This has been a long conversation nationally about how we can do a better job of handling liability and some of the costs that come with firearm accidents or misuse. So, we’ve really taken ....

CONTINUED

I don't know what sort of premiums this would require - although some years back I remember reading a post on one of the actuarial boards (a hard core techie one) where someone had done a back of the envelope calculation and they'd come up with pretty small numbers. And their calculations were pretty speculative - lots of estimates of how many REGISTERED guns there were, what percentage were used in a shooting or other crime, the "average" economic damages, and so forth.
 

Bill requiring liability insurance for gun owners advances to full Senate

by: Gabrielle Franklin
Thanks for the heads-up Gabby.
I don't know what sort of premiums this would require - although some years back I remember reading a post on one of the actuarial boards (a hard core techie one) where someone had done a back of the envelope calculation and they'd come up with pretty small numbers. And their calculations were pretty speculative - lots of estimates of how many REGISTERED guns there were, what percentage were used in a shooting or other crime, the "average" economic damages, and so forth.
I'd like to review the final calculation, BUT !!

"The power to tax is the power to destroy" says John Marshall. The Supreme Court rules in McCulloch v. Maryland that no state may tax any instrumentality of the federal government. The case specifically involves taxation of the Bank of the United States and its Baltimore branch by the state of Maryland (see 1818)

Reductio ad absurdum:
A $Trillion $Dollar tax on every gun.
- ta da -

Like the Republican abortion criminalization fervor there are secondary implications here. Among them, what if the gun-owning citizen doesn't $pay the tax? The government then impounds or confiscates the gun/s?
That would violate 2A, "... shall not be infringed." BUT !!
We already hedge on it, in government schools, post offices, law courts, commercial airliners, etc.
Adding one more to the list may well merely be lost in the clutter, despite predictable vehement NRA backlash.

gun02.JPG originally posted by S2. Sharp point.
 
As for the premium I can't find the calculation but speaking from memory it was only a few dollars when added to a typical homeowners policy or tenant's package. Not enough to even begin to make people question whether they really wanted that gun.
 
"As for the premium I can't find the calculation but speaking from memory it was only a few dollars when added to a typical homeowners policy or tenant's package. Not enough to even begin to make people question whether they really wanted that gun." S2 #83
Remember how they did seatbelts? First they said we're not mandating wearing them, we're requiring their installation.
Then they mandated wearing them.

Income $tax may be an even more vivid example.

U.S. Constitution amendments: ARTICLE #16: Ratified February 3, 1913
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Not sure, but I gather U.S. income tax was below 2% when first implemented. IIRC by the Eisenhower administration it had reached / exceeded 50%. And went higher? (before Laffer)

I'm all rah rah rah about seatbelts, mine lap-&-shoulder style.
But I'm quite serious about McColloch, even if not literally "destroy", close enough for government work.
"The power to tax is the power to destroy" John Marshall. SCOTUS McCulloch v. Maryland
Thin edge of the wedge / "slippery slope" on 2A is but one concern. If Uncle Sam gets away with that, Katie bar the door, for "discouraging" (from <1% to max%, or anywhere between) any imaginable material (heroin, ammunition, wadev).
 
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Thanks S2, no huge deal.
Some admins. dislike links to other BBS. I don't mind. Perhaps why so few posting members here.
If you're trying to cover your own cyber-tracks, understood.
If not, you're welcome to link to the site / post where you found it in the future.

Just a heads-up: I've neglected an attribute a time or two, & later got in trouble for it.
An example that comes to mind, perhaps from @CV.us
Then NBC-TV News anchor Brian Williams did a segment on Stonehenge, and what I thought was casually interjected "the largest henge in the world".
I thought it might bear repeating, but didn't quite warrant the ordeal of an attribute.

mark mywords stepped in, informing me / us it isn't (or wasn't).
 
"$2 million settlement" #89
?
There better be more to it than this. The armed government first responders loitered for over an hour before taking action? The commander responsible for this should do 2 - 5 hard labor.
 

University of Virginia reaches $9 million settlement with families of 2022 mass shooting. But they say it’s not enough

By Emma Tucker and Raja Razek, CNN

The University of Virginia has reached a $9 million settlement with the families of three college football players who were killed in a 2022 mass shooting after a school field trip, school officials and attorneys for the families and victims announced Friday.

Attorneys told CNN in statements on behalf of the victims’ families the settlement does not bring them any closure and strongly urged for the results of the attorney general’s independent review of the shooting to be released.

University spokesperson Brian Coy said a judge in the Albemarle County Circuit Court approved settlement agreements between the university and the estates of football players Devin Chandler, Lavel Davis Jr. and D’Sean Perry.

The three men were killed on November 13, 2022, when a fellow student opened fire on a bus returning to the Charlottesville campus from a class field trip to Washington, D.C. where the class had seen a play.

Two other people, Marlee Morgan and Michael Hollins, were injured by the gunfire. Suspect Christopher Darnell Jones Jr., a former football player, faces three counts of second-degree murder and three counts of using a handgun in the commission of ....

 

"$9 million settlement" #93

I can't pierce the fog here. What's the constructive impact here?

- Steeling the resolve of institutions to be responsible?
- Opportunistic $windfall?
- The system at work, another headless horseman?

CNN has disclosed relevant information here.
But what systemic changes are being formulated to substantially reduce the carnage? Itn any?
 
From my FB feed of two years ago

"After witnessing first hand the carnage in my hometown of Uvalde, to stay silent would have betrayed that oath. Inaction is harm. Passivity is harm. Delay is harm. So here I am. Not to plead, not to beg or to convince you of anything. But to do my job. And hope that by doing so it inspires the members of this House to do theirs.
I have lived in Uvalde my whole life. In fact, I attended Robb Elementary School myself as a kid. As often is the case with us grown ups, we remember a lot of the good and not so much of the bad.
So I don’t recall homework or spelling bees, I remember how much I loved going to school and what a joyful time it was.
Back then we were able to run between classrooms with ease to visit our friends. And I remember the way the cafeteria smelled lunchtime on Hamburger Thursdays.
It was right around lunchtime on a Tuesday that a gunman entered the school through the main door without restriction, massacred 19 students and two teachers and changed the way every student at Robb and their families will remember that school, forever.
I doubt they’ll remember the smell of the cafeteria or the laughter ringing in the hallways. Instead they’ll be haunted by the memory of screams and bloodshed, panic and chaos.
Police shouting, parents wailing. I know I will never forget what I saw that day.
For me, that day started like any typical Tuesday at our Pediatric clinic - moms calling for coughs, boogers, sports physicals – right before the summer rush. School was out in two days then summer camps would guarantee some grazes and ankle sprains. Injuries that could be patched up and fixed with a Mickey Mouse sticker as a reward.
Then at 12:30 business as usual stopped and with it my heart. A colleague from a San Antonio trauma center texted me a message: 'Why are the pediatric surgeons and anesthesiologists on call for a mass shooting in Uvalde?'
I raced to the hospital to find parents outside yelling children’s names in desperation and sobbing as they begged for any news related to their child. Those mother’s cries I will never get out of my head.
As I entered the chaos of the ER, the first casualty I came across was Miah Cerrillo. She was sitting in the hallway. Her face was still, still clearly in shock, but her whole body was shaking from the adrenaline coursing through it. The white Lilo and Stitch shirt she wore was covered in blood and her shoulder was bleeding from a shrapnel injury.
Sweet Miah. I’ve known her my whole life. As a baby she survived major liver surgeries against all odds. And once again she’s here. As a survivor. Inspiring us with her story today and her bravery.
When I saw Miah sitting there, I remembered having seen her parents outside. So after quickly examining two other patients of mine in the hallway with minor injuries, I raced outside to let them know Miah was alive. I wasn’t ready for their next urgent and desperate question: 'Where's Elena?'
Elena, is Miah’s 8-year-old sister who was also at Robb at the time of the shooting. I had heard from some nurses that there were “two dead children” who had been moved to the surgical area of the hospital. As I made my way there, I prayed that I wouldn’t find her.
I didn’t find Elena, but what I did find was something no prayer will ever relieve.
Two children, whose bodies had been so pulverized by the bullets fired at them, decapitated, whose flesh had been so ripped apart, that the only clue as to their identities was the blood spattered cartoon clothes still clinging to them. Clinging for life and finding none.
I could only hope these two bodies were a tragic exception to the list of survivors. But as I waited there with my fellow Uvalde doctors, nurses, first responders and hospital staff for other casualties we hoped to save, they never arrived. All that remained was the bodies of 17 more children and the two teachers who cared for them, who dedicated their careers to nurturing and respecting the awesome potential of every single one. Just as we doctors do.
I’ll tell you why I became a pediatrician. Because I knew that children were the best patients. They accept the situation as it’s explained to them. You don’t have to coax them into changing their lifestyles in order to get better or plead them to modify their behavior as you do with adults.
No matter how hard you try to help an adult, their path to healing is always determined by how willing they are to take action. Adults are stubborn. We’re resistant to change even when the change will make things better for ourselves. But especially when we think we’re immune to the fallout.
Why else would there have been such little progress made in Congress to stop gun violence?
Innocent children all over the country today are dead because laws and policy allows people to buy weapons before they’re legally even old enough to buy a pack of beer. They are dead because restrictions have been allowed to lapse. They’re dead because there are no rules about where guns are kept. Because no one is paying attention to who is buying them.
The thing I can’t figure out is whether our politicians are failing us out of stubbornness, passivity or both.
I said before that as grown ups we have a convenient habit of remembering the good and forgetting the bad. Never more so than when it comes to our guns. Once the blood is rinsed away from the bodies of our loved ones, and scrubbed off the floors or the schools and supermarkets and churches, the carnage from each scene is erased from our collective conscience and we return once again to nostalgia.
To the rose tinted view of our second amendment as a perfect instrument of American life, no matter how many lives are lost.
I chose to be a pediatrician. I chose to take care of children. Keeping them safe from preventable diseases I can do. Keeping them safe from bacteria and brittle bones I can do. But making sure our children are safe from guns, that’s the job of our politicians and leaders.
In this case, you are the doctors and our country is the patient. We are lying on the operating table, riddled with bullets like the children of Robb Elementary and so many other schools. We are bleeding out and you are not there.
My oath as a doctor means that I signed up to save lives. I do my job. And I guess it turns out that I am here to plead. To beg. To please, please do yours."
-- Dr. Roy Guerrero, Texas Pediatrician

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-- Dr. Roy Guerrero, Texas Pediatrician #97
Thank you for your public service Dr. Guerrero, and for your humanity.

"My oath as a doctor means that I signed up to save lives. I do my job. And I guess it turns out that I am here to plead. To beg. To please, please do yours." -- Dr. Roy Guerrero, Texas Pediatrician
I deduce (out of focus microphone in foreground) Dr. Guerrero addressed government officials on this issue, perhaps the Texas legislature. Perhaps the accompanying text is the content of that address.
Looks like a worthy attempt to me. BUT
it seems Dr. Guerrero those you address prioritize guns over children. That's not to suggest they're so craven they personally prefer guns. Instead
it indicates they're so craven they'd rather keep their job than do their job, even at the expense of a public school massacre here or there.
When you're done talking to them good doctor, try tinkling directly into the wind, each equally effective at preventing the slaughter of children.
 
it seems Dr. Guerrero those you address prioritize guns over children.
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Also from 2015

Since Sandy Hook, an American Kid Has Died by a Gun Every Other Day

An NBC News analysis shows that 555 children 12 and younger have died by guns since the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting three years ago.

 
"Since Sandy Hook, an American Kid Has Died by a Gun Every Other Day" #99
BUT !!
In a 2nd term President Trump may be able to increase that rate substantially, lowering ammunition prices, expanding gun purchase eligibility to more sociopaths, etc.
 
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