Victor Danilchenko
Member
Yup. They hadn't seen the Holocaust YET, but they already had seen the Holodomor. We, from our future perspective, are better positioned to judge; but at the time Hitler probably looked like the lesser evil for a while.
Russia Targets An Empty German Consulate in Kiev - Latest Reports (Edit)
- Thread starter Borg Refinery
- Start date
mark mywords
Active member
presumably not the Poles?
Not the Polish *government* but many individual Poles did fight in the Nazi army.
You might next say "presumably not the Jews" but honestly, a bunch of half and quarter Jews found homes within the army hoping to save their spouses and kids from being deported by proving themselves loyal members of the military.
At any rate, no one knew when Hitler marched into Poland that the Holocaust was about to happen. That takes hindsight, and you can't criticize people at the time for acting without it.
In ignorance that might look inexcusably deplorable. But double-agents have had there utility here or there in history. But:
"War is Hell."
Along lines of "Enigma" the Nazi's code machine, and other Nazi battle communications:
the Allies had cracked the Nazi battle communications code. BUT !!
If the Allies acted on it conspicuously the Nazis would have been able to deduce their code had been breached, changed the code, and destroyed this invaluable Allied intelligence resource.
The bedeviling consequence of this:
the Allies knew sometimes days in advance of major Nazi attacks, but refused to tip their intelligence hand, thereby sacrificing those slaughtered in the Nazi advance, both civilian and Allied military alike. *
War is Hell.
In that context, I can understand even if not forgive those that used guile or subterfuge to avoid extermination of their own bloodline by the Nazis.
* I recall a story, don't recall if fiction or not, of an Allied intelligence commander that learned of a Nazi attack plan. This Allied intelligence commander had a son in command of Allied troops, those scheduled for Nazi attack.
The Allied intelligence commander's dilemma, warn his son, and risk exposing the delicate Allied intelligence source, or sacrifice his son for the greater good. "War is Hell."
mark mywords
Active member
stumbled across an interesting thing about the in no way fascist Azov Battalion
Payton Gendron, an 18 year old who drove some 200 miles across America in order that he might shoot himself some black folk (managed to kill 10)
this is him and this is a member of the in no way fascist Azov battalion
notice anything? anything at all?
OK how about Brenton Tarrant? remember him? He was an Australian who decided that he so disliked Muslims that he would travel all the way to New Zealand to bag himself a few whilst he was doing this he thought it was a good idea to wear the emblem of the in no way fascist Azov battalion
Why are 2 race terrorists thousands of miles away from each other AND from Ukraine wearing the insignia of an in no way fascist Ukrainian organisation ?
Payton Gendron, an 18 year old who drove some 200 miles across America in order that he might shoot himself some black folk (managed to kill 10)
this is him and this is a member of the in no way fascist Azov battalion
notice anything? anything at all?
OK how about Brenton Tarrant? remember him? He was an Australian who decided that he so disliked Muslims that he would travel all the way to New Zealand to bag himself a few whilst he was doing this he thought it was a good idea to wear the emblem of the in no way fascist Azov battalion
Why are 2 race terrorists thousands of miles away from each other AND from Ukraine wearing the insignia of an in no way fascist Ukrainian organisation ?
Victor Danilchenko
Member
Isn't it funny how you, a not-at-all-a-kremlin-apologist, choose to focus on some nazi randos with no power in Ukraine, but completely ignore nazis at the very top echelons of power in russia?
Your apologia for genocide and your peculiarly selective blindness on nazism are duly noted.
Mark, you make me sick. Russia, a bona fide nazi state (yes, nazi, at this point not even merely facist!), attacked Ukraine unprovoked, annexed its territories, is attempting to perpetrate genocide -- and you are completely ignoring ALL of it in order to push filthy kremlin narratives.
Do you know what makes russia nazi? It's not even the salutes or tattoos (though top russian officials sport those). It's the fact that they match all the classic signs of fascism, and are attempting to carry out a genocide of an entire people -- Ukrainians.
Got anything to say about that, not-at-all-a-kremlin-apologist?
Borg Refinery
Active member
He is satan. He just tried to bring in apologia for loyalist terrorists being nudged to commit a school shooting in Belfast.
It's either that or he's just a troll, I can't tell as they tend to overlap.
It's either that or he's just a troll, I can't tell as they tend to overlap.
Victor Danilchenko
Member
mark mywords
Active member
The nazi "randos" I am focusing on are the Azov battalion who are (apparently) in no way connected with fascism Nazis are anything even remotely similar.
I must have missed that bit are you sure it didnt just happen inside your head?
You seem to be trusting the word of a convicted terrorist and all round psychopath, I dont I knew Weir (at the time that he was "involved" so I think that I am possibly a bit better placed to know his trustworthiness than you and I wouldnt trust him to run an errand to the local shop.
Here is how it goes, Weir was involved in some pretty nasty stuff if he can blame the spooks that takes some of the guilt of him so he perhaps get to sleep better at night (though hopefully not)
In the 70s and 80s some pretty weird stuff went down here and yes the spooks were possibly behind some, most, or all of it but what would the point be in them getting a load of school kids killed? cui bono?
m #69
Looks like you've developed a fan club. As the admin. perhaps I should feel hurt for being up-staged. Admins. can edit posts. I surely don't want @CV to be over-run by a potty-mouth contagion. But sunlight's the best disinfectant.
I haven't yet figured out what the issue is here. Doesn't seem to much dispute the events. There's got to be more to it than name-calling.
Later for that. Enjoy your weekend.
Looks like you've developed a fan club. As the admin. perhaps I should feel hurt for being up-staged. Admins. can edit posts. I surely don't want @CV to be over-run by a potty-mouth contagion. But sunlight's the best disinfectant.
I haven't yet figured out what the issue is here. Doesn't seem to much dispute the events. There's got to be more to it than name-calling.
Later for that. Enjoy your weekend.
Victor Danilchenko
Member
No, they are simply randos.
There are nazis in all countries. Yes, there are nazis in Ukraine. There's quite a number of nazis in Azov. But they hold no power -- in the last election in Ukraine the neonazis got 2% of the vote and 0 seats in Rada.
Quite in contast with russia, where neonazis are running in the highest corridors of power.
Ukraine has Azov. Russia has Wagner and Rusich and Prigozhin. But you don't care -- you have a propaganda narrative to push.
mark mywords
Active member
Not many countries allow them to have their own battalion in the army
Not many countries have their leader appointed after a fascist uprising
Not every country has their leader openly praising fascists
I know according to you Azov and Bandera are not fascists, they just like dressing and acting like real fascists but the duck rule applies
mark mywords
Active member
and this is unlike Ukraine how exactly?
Ah remember when Zelensky gave money to finance the in no way fascist paramilitary group C14? to further “national-patriotic education project"s
C14 who take their name from the Fascist motto "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children"
But Russia executes and jails political opponents...........................guess what so do Ukraine
Zelensky has banned 11 political parties including some that had seats in parliament
Vlodymyr Struk, pro-Russian mayor kidnapped and murdered.
Denis Kireev, Ukraine peace negotiator shot dead ‘defending the nation’.
Mikhail & Aleksander Kononovich, Ukrainian youth leaders arrested.
Nestor Shufrych, Ukrainian member of parliament arrested.
Yan Taksyur, Ukrainian Orthodox journalist jailed with no access to a lawyer medical treatment.
Dmitri Djangirov, Ukrainian journalist, political expert, political scientist arrested
Gonzalo Lira, Chilean journalist working in Ukraine disappeared
Some time ago I wrote here about the war in Donbas and how despite extensive searches I could find almost nothing about Ukrainian attacks on Donbas but reports on Donbas attacks on Ukraine were every where well I didnt check on Amnesty international (my bad) well apparently since 2014 13000 Donbas residents have been killed by Ukrainian actors (army Azov C14)
Borg Refinery
Active member
Your genocide denial is simply disgusting along with trying to downplay RUC crimes.
You know, when they shopped people's families as collaborators when they weren't and got them killed. And downplaying the school shooting MI5 attempted to make happen.
Awful stuff, but apparently pointing this out is now trolling.
mark mywords
Active member
55 deaths in 32 years
of these 55 deaths 17 were republican terrorist 4 loyalist terrorist 30 civilians and 4 security services
So at least 21 of the dead were terrorists (excuse me if I dont weep too much)
therefore in 30 years the police caused 30 civilian deaths, there are American police department that would do that in a year and they arent even fighting a war!
I dont down play them, they happened some of them shouldnt have happened but some of them absolutely were justified and lawful.
mark mywords
Active member
Q: how do you feel about the 13000 killed in Donbas by fascist Ukrainian forces or does that not fall withing you definition of "genocide"
Victor Danilchenko
Member
No other countries have them in their Cabinet.
But russia does.
You keep curiously ignoring that.
Victor Danilchenko
Member
I don't feel about it, because it didn't happen. That figure is false.
But I am totally unsurprised to see a genocide apologist like you repeat russia's goebbels-like lies.
mark mywords
Active member
of course it is false and the sky is polka dot and Azov arent fascist
So you think that Donbas was shelling Ukraine for 7 years and Ukraine never took any action because that is the official Ukraine version
make a clown president expect a circus
Zalensky before he was installed as so called president.
Put on here as Twitter blocking the MP4 being posted directly.
rumble.com
"President Obam please send me the book Mien Kampf they are sold out here" prophetic words indeed from the definitely not fascist Zelensky
UKRAINIAN FIGHTING TACTICS ENDANGER CIVILIANS
August 3, 2022Amnesty International
Victor Danilchenko
Member
You mean the "Report" for which Amnesty profusely apologized? And a podcast from an "Expert" who doesn't know how to spell "Zelensky"?
In the meantime, you keep studiously ignoring the numerous signs of triumphant nazism as russia's actual political system.
In the meantime, you keep studiously ignoring the numerous signs of triumphant nazism as russia's actual political system.