IIRC, there's a 60 second delay before it shows as edited.
Russia Targets An Empty German Consulate in Kiev - Latest Reports (Edit)
- Thread starter Borg Refinery
- Start date
now that's a heck of a nice birthday present for me, even if it isn't meant to be, lol!
mark mywords
Active member
Not Ukraine one small area of Ukraine.
the couple of reports I have are confusing one says that it was 13000 from Donbas region (Victor says it never happened) the one above sort of suggests that 13000 is the total death toll BUT according to the UNHR over 80% of the total deaths in the conflict were in Donbas so it might "only" be 10500 from Donbas - population about 4million
Notice that despite the evidence Victor says it never happened, I fully accept the deaths in Ukraine but I am the genocide denier!!!
Victor Danilchenko
Member
I do. But it doesn't make a difference. MW is a filthy lying genocide apologist who is not interested in truth. I will not put up with it. And since this is your board and your rules, I will remove myself from it.
Good luck.
mark mywords
Active member
which is rich coming from the person who denies 13000 deaths in Donbas (OK it might possible be "only" 10500 the sources are unclear) and has been caught out several times perpetrating untruths - not just little errors of fact but absolute howlers
Commensurate reactions can be consistent with a balanced constructive exchange.
I'm not sure #126 qualifies.
It seems emotion based, rather than logic based. Therefore what sense my logical reply?
Reports of war are notoriously subject to error. BUT !!
This Russian invasion of Ukraine has continued for most of a year. And though individual details may be inaccurate, the general message has been corroborated from multiple reports from multiple news sources from multiple nations. I'm not sure the exact number of corpses is what matters most.
I'm not sure #126 qualifies.
It seems emotion based, rather than logic based. Therefore what sense my logical reply?
Reports of war are notoriously subject to error. BUT !!
This Russian invasion of Ukraine has continued for most of a year. And though individual details may be inaccurate, the general message has been corroborated from multiple reports from multiple news sources from multiple nations. I'm not sure the exact number of corpses is what matters most.
mark mywords
Active member
Multiple reports certainly but not multiple sources most of the reports originate from Ukraine officials (it is they who take the reporters around and show them what they want seen - go off track with your reporting and at a minimum you wont be invited on the next sight seeing trip or you could end up disappeared
You may recall some time ago I posted pictures of "mass grave" of torture victims and commented that the image and what we were being told didnt match up (ditto the rocket attack on a hospital)
In the latest "genocidal" attack Ukraine reports 10 deaths resulting from a drone attack in Kiev
Hitler must be turning in his grave at least when he mounted a genocide people got dead
It's a war zone. As a "news" consumer I expect that. "The first casualty of war is truth."
But I don't think it's wildly inaccurate, that actually Ukraine has each Russian invader bent over a chair, with a ball-gag in their mouth, enjoying their indulgence month after month.
Not likely.
Extrapolate from Russian troops massed on Ukraine's border before the invasion. Not much doubt in my mind who the bad guy is here.
Not your accusation, but an example of a limit: I doubt Ukraine would blow up its own hospital, just to have something to blame on Russia. I deduce Russia is willing to lay waste to the portions of Ukraine it most desires, and is willing to then assimilate it as a wasteland, to be rebuilt more to its liking by future Russian generations.
mark mywords
Active member
why not? Its bricks and mortar good anti Russian propaganda is worth more than a soviet era hospital (I DO NOT SAY THAT THEY DID)
There are a great many Americans (mainly Alex Jones fans but not all) think that the US government blew up the twin towers!
Was the hospital targeted? or did the rocket malfunction or was it shot down?
It is clear that the rocket didnt hit the hospital it landed several yards away from it had it actually hit the hospital there would not have been only 4 deaths
I know.
And in context of GWB's invasion & occupation of Iraq, it may seem difficult to refute.
But I don't.
I enjoy some conspiracy theories. When I was in 9th grade or so there was a theory, pieced together jigsaw puzzle style from Beatles album covers, that Paul McCartney had been murdered by his fellow Beatles.
The theory was intricate, creative.
I appreciated the creativity.
But I'm careful to not allow my recreational entertainment poison my citizenship responsibilities of being aware.
It's possible.
Unlikely.
mark mywords
Active member
I have noticed that there arent so many conspiracy theories as there used to be, I think that the media have stopped talking about them
Do you suppose they've been crowded out by even more implausible realities?
a reprise from: https://citizenvoice.us/threads/photos-vids-etc.143/page-2 (where it got buried)
Colbert interviewed Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Maggie Haberman, who has published a 500 page character study of Donal Trump.
Haberman:
"I don't think it's responsible to ignore it. I do think it's responsible to contextualize it."
... "It was incredibly cynical politics. ... We all thought we were fact-checking him [Trump] and in fact we were just spreading this further."
Colbert:
"So if you shouldn't ignore him, and what he's saying are lies, but by checking the lies you repeat the lies, and drive them into people's heads, so they forget that their lies and only remember the accusations, what's left?"
"At this point we can't ignore him." Haberman
From the back cover: "This is the book Trump fears most."
I have not read the book.
But Ms Haberman is an insightful, intelligent, articulate interviewee.
Those that want a candid peek into Donald Trump's personality, and behind the scenes events, this book is worth a read.
8888888888888888888
Bottom line, the media still hasn't figured out how to deal with Trump. Estimates are by lying, concocting a new outrage once per news cycle, Trump got about a $Billion worth of free publicity. Without that, President Hillary would be in her second term.
Putin isn't fooling the West with this nonsense. But there are indications Putin isn't considering quitting. For example Putin seems to be counting on a Republican takeover in Congress that will reduce or halt U.S. aid to Ukraine. Whether Putin has already interfered in the U.S. electoral process may be unresolved.
t #135
Your gloom suggests to me if Putin does eventually realize he can't win he may simply continue to level as much infrastructure in Ukraine as he can for as long as he can, a metaphorical twist of the knife.
My question: will the West make Putin pay a commensurate price.
Your gloom suggests to me if Putin does eventually realize he can't win he may simply continue to level as much infrastructure in Ukraine as he can for as long as he can, a metaphorical twist of the knife.
My question: will the West make Putin pay a commensurate price.
Ukrainska Pravda
Thu, October 27, 2022
EUROPEAN PRAVDA – THURSDAY, 27 OCTOBER 2022, 11:11
Konstantin Vorontsov, senior official of the Russian Foreign Ministry, stated that Russia may regard Western commercial satellites as legitimate targets if they are used to help Ukraine in the war.
Source: European Pravda, with reference to TASS, Russian state-owned news outlet, quoting Vorontsov
Vorontsov is the Deputy Director of the Department of Non-Proliferation and Arms Control of the Russian Foreign Ministry. His statement was made at the First Committee of the United Nations General Assembly.
Vorontsov called the "use by the United States and its allies of civilian, including commercial, infrastructure elements in outer space for military purposes" to be "an extremely dangerous trend ... that has become apparent during the latest developments in Ukraine".
"Quasi-civilian infrastructure may become a legitimate target for retaliation. Western actions needlessly put at risk the sustainability of peaceful space activities, as well as numerous social and economic processes on Earth that affect the well-being of people, first of all in developing countries." Vorontsov said.
The Starlink satellite communication system from SpaceX plays an extremely important role for Ukraine.
In addition, Ukrainian volunteers used the funds, which were initially raised for the purchase of three Bayraktar drones, to purchase access to information from the group of satellites of the ICEYE Finnish company. The access was purchased for more than a year, as well as full access to one of the satellites until the end of its orbital life.
news.yahoo.com
I'm not sure what Russia stands to gain in winning this war justifies what Russia is trying to place at risk.
That suggests to me for Putin it's more ego than anything else.
Driving this war into space? I hope the Pentagon & NATO are paying attention.
Thu, October 27, 2022
EUROPEAN PRAVDA – THURSDAY, 27 OCTOBER 2022, 11:11
Konstantin Vorontsov, senior official of the Russian Foreign Ministry, stated that Russia may regard Western commercial satellites as legitimate targets if they are used to help Ukraine in the war.
Source: European Pravda, with reference to TASS, Russian state-owned news outlet, quoting Vorontsov
Vorontsov is the Deputy Director of the Department of Non-Proliferation and Arms Control of the Russian Foreign Ministry. His statement was made at the First Committee of the United Nations General Assembly.
Vorontsov called the "use by the United States and its allies of civilian, including commercial, infrastructure elements in outer space for military purposes" to be "an extremely dangerous trend ... that has become apparent during the latest developments in Ukraine".
"Quasi-civilian infrastructure may become a legitimate target for retaliation. Western actions needlessly put at risk the sustainability of peaceful space activities, as well as numerous social and economic processes on Earth that affect the well-being of people, first of all in developing countries." Vorontsov said.
The Starlink satellite communication system from SpaceX plays an extremely important role for Ukraine.
In addition, Ukrainian volunteers used the funds, which were initially raised for the purchase of three Bayraktar drones, to purchase access to information from the group of satellites of the ICEYE Finnish company. The access was purchased for more than a year, as well as full access to one of the satellites until the end of its orbital life.
Russia threatens to shoot down Western commercial satellites used to help Ukraine
EUROPEAN PRAVDA - THURSDAY, 27 OCTOBER 2022, 11:11 Konstantin Vorontsov, senior official of the Russian Foreign Ministry, stated that Russia may regard Western commercial satellites as legitimate targets if they are used to help Ukraine in the war.
I'm not sure what Russia stands to gain in winning this war justifies what Russia is trying to place at risk.
That suggests to me for Putin it's more ego than anything else.
Driving this war into space? I hope the Pentagon & NATO are paying attention.
mark mywords
Active member
At least Russia has a definable goal which if it is achieved means that they have "won". Whether the prize is worth the cost only they can know.
US (and others) entered a war in Afghanistan with no definable goal, no line which once crossed meant victory and no exit policy for once they realised that they were involved in a conflict which they had no chance of "winning" and worse still in which they had no chance of achieving anything tangible.
GWB was surely deficient as a wartime U.S. president.
The Iraq War is the one that left me dumbfounded. While I've never been much of a GWB fan I thought he got the Afghanistan War premise about right.
Between the Twin Towers toppling and boot #1 making an impression on Afghanistan soil the Taliban was the defacto Afghanistan leader.
GWB made the Afghanistan Taliban the following offer.
- UBL is a dangerous criminal. You're harboring him in Afghanistan.
- Either you hand UBL over to us, or we'll come in and get him. And if we have to do that, while we're there we'll take you out too.
iirc when GWB was asked before the invasion about his exit strategy in Afghanistan GWB arrogantly replied: "Victory".
The monumental U.S. military blunder left its mark day #1. The U.S. ceded Tora Bora perimeter security to local mercenaries, a $cost-saving move I imagine. The result, what should have been one of the U.S. most brief Wars ended up being the longest.
GWB in full pseudo-Texas swagger announced: UBL - wanted dead or alive, a term you may recognize from old B&W "cowboy & Indian" movies. GWB was big on rhetoric, but short on results.
Obama didn't swagger much, but methodically tracked UBL down, and put a hit on him. The reason we lost a helicopter: the full-scale mock-up where ST-6 drilled staked out the perimeter of UBL's compound with wire. The dimensions were right. The material was wrong.
The wire perimeter marking didn't affect the chopper's rotor-wash the way the 20' concrete walls of the Abadabad compound did. The pilot had been prepared for aerodynamic conditions that didn't apply at the compound.
But there was another chopper in reserve, for such contingency, the rest of the mission went more or less as planned.
To U.S. credit once UBL fed the fish Obama could have withdrawn the U.S. military from Afghanistan. But Obama was advised the U.S. backed Afghanistan government was not strong enough to stand on its own. So the U.S. stayed there through the remainder of the Obama administration, the entire Trump administration, and then suddenly, inexplicably, were hastily withdrawn early in the Biden administration. Optimistic reports recount the government the U.S. tried for decades to build and support there lasted almost an hour after U.S. support was withdrawn.
I would welcome any attempt you would care to argue that the U.S. should have left UBL in safe haven in Afghanistan after 09/11/01 knowing that he was there, and also knowing he was the criminal mastermind responsible.
I can't endorse your "achieving anything tangible" rhetoric in law enforcement context.
mark mywords
Active member
Except that he wasnt in Afghanistan and even if he had been there was no legal process to extradite him to the US.
It is famously difficult to extradite any one from the US and if that person is a US citizen it is virtually impossible - what goes around comes around as they say.
Pol Brennan was in the Maze prison serving a sentence for terrorism offences.
He shot his way out of the prison and illegally entered the US
Whilst illegally in the US and illegally working in the US he committed further offences ( buying guns and one case of assault)
The US consistently refused to extradite him to the UK to finish off his sentence
after the good friday agreement and the de facto amnesty America deported Brennan to the Republic of Ireland where he remains to this day.
Question, when the US refused to extradite Brennan would Britain have been justified in bombing Washington?
(bear in mind that unlike ObL Brennan was convicted of terrorism)