Russia Targets An Empty German Consulate in Kiev - Latest Reports (Edit)

[Borg Refinery]

reports by who?
Obviously there are people who have an interest in making any Russian action look bad

My point is that if your own elections are a very long way from free fair and transparent you are not really in a position to criticise the elections of others.
hands up those who think the US organised elections in Iraq were "free fair and transparent"

It seems to be reports by people who wish to remain anonymous, lest their family be shot dead, Mark.

They come from news organisations you will not like and will probably brand them as liars, de facto.

It's true that the BBC and Western MSM has been caught out in lies many times before, such as in Syria, but the idea that everyone is a crisis actor, Russia is conducting an acceptable referendum because US elections aren't perfect etc, is absolutely ludicrous while there's a genocide going on against the Ukrainians.

I'm in every position to criticise Russia's genocide and everything they're doing in Ukraine, we should consider hitting the Kremlin - and declare the no-fly zone in Ukraine, in my opinion, to stop the genocide right now - and the referendum should be laughed at, as the joke it is.

Putin's generals are really beginning to turn on him, so it's possible that will not launch the nukes.

Let's try to stop this genocide NOW before anymore children die.

 

[sear]

Victor PLEASE dont try and tell me that US elections are free, fair OR transparent!
or perhaps you think it OK to disenfranchise African American voters on the basis that they are more likely to vote Democrat.

Below in yellow North Carolina’s 12th congressional district,

View attachment 71

An illustrative example of what we call a Gerrymandered congressional district. It's commonly pronounced Jerrymander, but an authority I read of reported it's named after a bloke named Gerry, hard G, as in "good". The story is: in context of Gerry, such district when drawn on a map looked like (Rorschach) looked like a salamander.
Is m #14 an example of the "no true Scotsman" argument?
In my decades of experience with applied statistics seems to me in an endeavor with a population numbering in the hundreds of millions, getting 100% correct is unlikely, unrealistic. Public opinion polls have an MOE. Well?! What is an election, but a public opinion poll? Right? So:
compared to what?

AND !!

We KNOW U.S. presidential elections are crooked. We needn't look past the electoral college to verify that. So what?
So the GOP has not put a Republican in the white house by popular vote since Y2K. Not Bush. Not Trump.

"I want to stay on the topic of this thread -- russian attempted genocide and the illegitimate, coercive, sham "referenda" in the occupied territories." D #20

I can't / won't criticize mm's tenacious preference for more than just unsubstantiated opinion, or even plausibility. But I'm where you are on this on D #20. In context, seems to me this "referendum" is a ridiculous Putin sham. Conducting in time of War is absurd. And if Putin wanted a pretense of legitimacy, why did he not have international election monitors on it?

"Your insuperable hunger for red herrings" D #20

Easy Mr. D, I haven't finished breakfast.

No true Scotsman, or appeal to purity, is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect their universal generalization from a counterexample in an ad hoc fashion by tautologically excluding the counterexample. Rather than abandoning the universal generalization or providing evidence that would disqualify the counterexample, this fallacy involves offering a modified generalization to definitionally exclude the desired specific case and counterexamples like it by appeal to rhetoric as opposed to an objective criterion. This rhetoric takes the form of emotionally charged but nonsubstantive purity platitudes such as "true, pure, genuine, authentic, real", etc.
Philosophy professor Bradley Dowden explains the fallacy as an "ad hoc rescue" of a refuted generalization attempt. The following is a simplified rendition of the fallacy
Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge." source: Wiki 210316

 

[sear]

we should consider hitting the Kremlin

I've been wondering why it hasn't already begun for months. BUT !!
Care must be taken to not allow Putin an excuse to expand his War to involve NATO as well. Seems to me we're close to that line right now.

As I understand it the recent bridge strike renders unusable an important Russian combat troop resupply route. Good.

"Let's try to stop this genocide NOW before anymore children die." O #21

 

[mark mywords]

russian attempted genocide

Sorry but if you think that Russia are attempting genocide then you havent been paying attention

as of Oct 2 2022 there have been 6000 civilian deaths in Ukraine (OHCHR figures) in almost 8 months of all out war just 6000 deaths if that is "genocide" then what was Afghanistan? and Iraq?

Of course there are others like yourself with an inbuilt hatred of Russia and all things Russian who make ridiculous claims such as

Q "How many Ukrainians have been killed by Russia?"
A "Nobody knows, the Russ has a fleet of incinerators to burn as many as they can and bury the rest in mass graves outside cities in areas, they have invaded. Guesses range from 50,000 to 1 Million civilians, mostly women and children" Otto Bihrer dated 14 May 2022

 

[Victor Danilchenko]

Sorry but if you think that Russia are attempting genocide then you havent been paying attention

Not only have I been paying attention, I actually speak fluent Ukrainian and russian, and I read primary sources in both languages all the time.

Bucha, Irpin, Izyum, Lyman, etc. -- all those show attempted genocide. As does mass abduction of children. What russia has been doing in Ukraine fits the UN definition of genocide to a T.

The difference from Holocaust is that Ukraine's civilians have a military protecting them from russian mass murder. Before the war they quite openly declared an intent to murder anyone who resists and insist on holding on to Ukrainian identity; their intent all along has been to destroy Ukraine as a country and "Ukrainian" as a concept, and physically destroy anyone who refuses to bow down. And only Armed Forces of Ukraine stand in the way of genociede.

BTW, your genocide apologia has been duly noted.

Of course there are others like yourself with an inbuilt hatred of Russia and all things Russian

Well, they launched of war of unprovoked aggression against my motherland. They are robbing and raping and murdering Ukrainians.

How am I supposed to feel about it?

P.S. The UN numbers are laughable. Just in Mariupol alone, according to unofficial russian sources, there were 87k dead civilians -- unsurprising, given that over 70% of the city's housing has been bombarded into rubble.

 

[mark mywords]

Your insuperable hunger for red herrings is quite telling. You know that you can't defend what russia did

I have no desire to attempt to defend what Russia is alleged to have done, but I think that JC said it best when he said

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. - Matthew 7:4-5

I (unlike you) am not about to attack what Russia does when my country has done the same things

 

[mark mywords]

Bucha, Irpin, Izyim, Lyman, etc. -- all those show attempted genocide. As does mass abduction of children. What russia has been doing in Ukraine fits the UN definition of genocide to a T.

carpet bombing?
fire bombing?
your adopted country (the US) has wiped towns and cities off the map!

 

[Victor Danilchenko]

I (unlike you) am not about to attack what Russia does when my country has done the same things

Nothing that US has done comes close to what russia is being prevented from doing.

USA hasn't attempted to destroy an entire nation; at least not since indian wars.

Anyway, your genocide apology (via tu quoque fallacy) is quite astonishing.

How does it feel to be justifying utter abject evil? To be excusing genocide?

 

[sear]

- uh oh -

 

[Borg Refinery]

Sadly, Mark's opposition is all too common on the left - Corbyn has similar types of positions.

Had he been leader, we would probably have been engaged in this.

Former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has called on the government to open talks with the coronavirus in order to seek a resolution to the current crisis.


“Once again, we see a Tory government immediately turning to a campaign of violence to solve a crisis, using words like ‘destroy’ and ‘eradicate’ with regard to the coronavirus,” said Mr Corbyn.


“Why not just talk instead?”


Mr Corbyn laid out his ideas for what discussions with the coronavirus would look like.


“Meet somewhere neutral, somewhere that the coronavirus isn’t going to feel threatened – no soap, or cleaning products.


“Then; listen. Find out what the coronavirus wants. It’s a living thing. It has needs and wants, we need to try and understand what they are.


“Finally, keep talking. The only way to resolve this crisis is through talking. Violence will not help.”
Simon Williams, a diehard Corbyn supporter, agreed.


“It’s the MSM,” he claimed, inevitably.


“They’re just promoting the Tory agenda of propping up big pharma and violence and Tony Blair, probably.


“We don’t have to invent a vaccine to kill off the virus, we just need to find a way to live together with it.”


It is thought that Mr Corbyn has come out and made the plea after controversially being pictured meeting the coronavirus at a private event when he referred to it as ‘my friend Covid-19′.

 

[Borg Refinery]

carpet bombing?
fire bombing?
your adopted country (the US) has wiped towns and cities off the map!

Amazing insights Mark.

Did you know your hero Corbyn wrote this?

“As war broke out in 1939 [Lansbury] wrote ‘I am also quite certain that the first great nation that declares its willingness to share the world’s resources, territories and markets and also disarms will be the safest in the world’. I hope Tony Blair, on his travels on behalf of George Bush, reads at least that part of this wonderful work.”

Sounds like Corbyn's cheering on pacifism and disarming in WWII - with the full benefit of hindsight.

The brothers & sisters came up with many excellent schemes and that is one of the best, it's simply too stupid for them to possibly resist.
Which is why Corbyn won the election in a landslide - but was cheated out of it because our elections are not fair or free and Russia's referenda in Ukraine are much cleaner than ours. The brothers and sisters have spoken.

 

[sear]

m #24
You're scaring me.

D #25
You're making it much worse.

"I (unlike you) am not about to attack what Russia does when my country has done the same things" m #26

You know there's a problem here. Right m?
I'm not sure what designation you have in mind, U.K.?
I honestly don't see a moral equivalency between the U.K. today and Russia today.
I know the U.K. has an imperial past. But for reasons you made clear earlier in the day, it's wrong to judge Christopher Columbus' plundering by today's standards. Right? Well !!
You're drawing moral equivalency between Russia's War in Ukraine, and the U.K. today? Hasenpfeffer.

m #26: the act of U.K.'s past imperial martial conquest is surely comparable. But it seems to me the U.K.'s butt-kickin' days are over. Did somebody start a war I didn't hear about yet?
How can you post: "the Russ has a fleet of incinerators to burn as many as they can and bury the rest in mass graves outside cities in areas, they have invaded. Guesses range from 50,000 to 1 Million civilians, mostly women and children" Otto Bihrer dated 14 May 2022" m #24
& read
"What russia has been doing in Ukraine fits the UN definition of genocide to a T." D #25

And draw moral equivalency? That's not moral equivalency m #24. Is it? Really?

O #31
Can you believe this? I think I need a nice long nap.

 

[Borg Refinery]

Don't worry, the brothers and sisters will have some other nice neat explanation for all that's going on, not lifted straight from RT word-for-word.

 

[sear]

O #33
Not blaming you, but thanking you. You make me feel silly. George Will says pessimism is its own reward.

"One of the pleasures of pessimism is that you're right more often than not, and when you're not you're pleased." George Will

I understand. "Disappointment is a function of expectation." Browne
Without expectation, no basis for disappointment.

BUT !!

Your #33 calls to my attention: optimism is also its own reward.
I like your way better.

 

[Borg Refinery]

You like my way better?

That's why I've been banned from everywhere including Vic's forum, YAP etc for being a rude fucker who takes the piss at every opportunity?

 

[Victor Danilchenko]

No, not for that.

 

[sear]

Vic's forum

Vic's forum ...

Got a link?
I should open up a cyberlinks thread in the Welcome forum. If one of you guys passes along the link / URL I'll intro the thread with it.

Thanks O #35.

 

[Victor Danilchenko]

Reality Nexus

Politics, philosophy, science, current events -- keeping it real while having a respectful, good-faith conversation.

www.tapatalk.com

 

[Borg Refinery]

No, not for that.

You cited my "trolling style" as one of the reasons for my ban in the final post.

How is Liz Truss - your favoured politician - doing anyway? You can't say I didn't warn you.

In any case, even in that final thread, you didn't cite the harmonized index I pointed to in my message to the admin after my ban (of EU states) which is not misleading, the other link you linked, on the other hand is very misleading. All was pointed out in my message after the ban as stated.

That said, I mistook the link you gave as non-eurozone when it was in fact the eurozone after all, but then mistakes happen when posting in haste. It doesn't necessarily make someone a liar unless they are knowingly posting untruthes (which was one of the accusations), the other accusation was "contempt of facts" and "epistemological abuse" and "using facts like a drunk uses a lamp post". !

Still one of the funniest things I've read in a good long while.

But let's try not to turn this thread into a farce, although it has already devolved into a farce, I also have no interest in talking about your forum or your false accusations that I've been posting on YAP as a sock (which were corrected - kinda shows how you jump to conclusions really easily too).

 

[Victor Danilchenko]

If you wanna whine about being banned or rag on me, start a thread for that. This one is about russia.