Cops behaving badly ...

[sear]

"Chokehold death of Jordan Neely ruled a homicide as outrage grows over caught-on video subway killing" S2 #99​

Should growing "outrage" affect how the killer is treated in law?
I understand, after the jury found the police that beat Rodney King not guilty *, the resulting L.A. riot did a reported $Billion $dollars damage. Government has law & order incentive to avoid such public blow-back. BUT !
Doesn't the ostensible good Sam that administered the choke-hold have legal right to unbiased law treatment within the judicial system as well?
- One form of treatment if the matter escapes broad public notice
- a different form of treatment following large public outcry?

That may seem prejudicial, as if I'm making excuses for the one that perpetrated the homicide. Not so. The question is asked sincerely.

S2 #100
Fine. But can choke-holds be administered safely? Or is administering such hold likely to result in fatality?

* I suspect but cannot prove this verdict resulted from "misdirection", in Law. an error made by a judge in charging a jury, but perhaps by the police' legal defense. Specifically, if the jurors could not agree unanimously on which specific club blow to Rodney King crossed the line, the line was not crossed. - piffle -
If the jury agrees that if there were 79 club blows to Rodney King, and the line was crossed somewhere between blow number 27, and blow number 34, then the jury is in unanimous agreement the line was crossed by police club blow #34.

 

[Shiftless2]

S2 #100
Fine. But can choke-holds be administered safely? Or is administering such hold likely to result in fatality?

I've used that choke, or variants on it, in tournaments more than once - and you generally know when the guy is out - hard not to when he goes limp. About the only time you can't be sure is if you're on top of him and he's face down so you can't see anything.

 

[sear]

S2 #102
Yes, BUT !
a) The one being choked could count to 13, deliberately go limp though still conscious, and then when released from hold, backlash with vengeance & vigor. I consider that a low risk, but a non-zero risk.
b) In this case:



not face down.
I get your point. If handcuffs not available the belt or shoelace from the subject / choke victim could be used to restrain wrists at small of back. If shoelace, can be looped through belt & pants loop to further restrain arm movement.

I'd still like to know what behavior precipitated the choke-hold. If there's no wounded victims, seems to me the defense argument for "self-defense" looks weak.

 

[Shiftless2]

The one being choked could count to 13, deliberately go limp though still conscious, and then when released from hold, backlash with vengeance & vigor.

Believe me, having been on the receiving end of that choke (as well as the giving) I have to admire anyone who could last for anywhere near 30 seconds but anyone applying that choke for four minutes had to know what was going to happen - either he was a complete idiot (in which case it's criminal negligence or whatever the relevant charge is) or he wanted to kill the guy. There is no in between.

 

[sear]

Am I outright wrong here?
Seems to me if the deceased was a choir boy at that location, seated politely making no menacing gestures or sounds, then he was murdered outright.
But if he was violent and either caused injuries or perpetrated behavior that would have caused injuries if allowed to continue, that's entirely different.

Thus my perspective: I'd need to know what the deceased's conduct was prior to his dispatch. Not only have I seen no video of that. I've found almost no mention of it, just incidental details like "homeless".

 

[Shiftless2]

Seems to me if the deceased was a choir boy at that location, seated politely making no menacing gestures or sounds, then he was murdered outright.
But if he was violent and either caused injuries or perpetrated behavior that would have caused injuries if allowed to continue, that's entirely different.

From the article linked in #99

Neely was on an F train heading toward the Broadway-Lafayette stop in NoHo when he began acting erratically around 2:30 p.m. Monday, passengers told police. He yelled and threw garbage at commuters, prompting an argument with the 24-year-old ex-Marine, cops said.

The quarrel turned into a brawl as the train entered the station.

During the fight, the former Marine put the victim in a chokehold and tried to restrain him.

And if you look at the pic there it appears that he's already out.

 

[sear]

I can understand why there might be video of the choke-hold, but not the erratic behavior alleged to have preceded it. But I wouldn't assume there is no such video, or still images, and would want to check.
From this description I'm not sure there's enough to justify homicide.

Restraining an out-of-control passenger is one thing. Killing him, another.
Knee on neck may have been official police procedure. That should be long enough to apply handcuffs. BUT !! 9+ minutes of it killed George Floyd.

 

[Shiftless2]

The death was ruled a homicide and Daniel Perry was charged with second degree manslaughter.

 

[Shiftless2]

This is minor in comparison to the other things that have been commented on but at least this time the local Police Chief won't be able to pretend it didn't happen

https://imgur.com/UvOYbiH

 

[sear]

"The death was ruled a homicide and Daniel Perry was charged with second degree manslaughter." #108

I sense a subtext. For example Perry might not otherwise be charged, BUT !!! ... But the details of the dot dot dot are unclear to me.
I've read vague allusions to erratic behavior of the slain, but I still don't know that it justified the passenger reaction.

#109
Looks like the PU driver illegally crossed double-yellow, ran a stop sign, & forced grey / silver PU to evasive maneuver. Not sure what the motorcyclist's issue is. Looks relatively wound-free to me.

 

[Shiftless2]

Watch the cop's reaction before he takes off.

OKC police officer seen flipping off motorcyclist in viral TikTok; OKCPD responds

A viral clip circulating TikTok and generating criticism appears to show an Oklahoma City police officer flipping off a motorcyclist.

www.oklahoman.com

Police Chief Summary "we don't have a full video so there may be a reason why our officers can ignore running stops signs, and act childish and unprofessional by flipping off the citizens we say we are sworn to protect."

 

[sear]

"Watch the cop's reaction before he takes off." S2 #111

I noticed.
The COP fig-leaf: merely adjusting my sunglasses.
I would admit, it's not quite "New York's Finest". But then what should we expect from Oklahoma? - zing -

btw: the motorcycle looks a little like a Yamaha XT to me. A 175 ?

note: reducing our attention to this level (no corpses strewn across the countryside), does help distract from the more notable headlines of the day, such as those disclosing Russian and Ukrainian corpses strewn across the countryside. Thanks for the brief relief S2.

ps:
Not sure what specific wording the motorcyclist used with the COP. But there is wording one might imagine coming from a "biker" that might explain the COP's reaction. However, "explain", and "justify" are not synonyms.

def:
The difference between a biker & a cyclist: the biker wears leather, the cyclist wears spandex.

 

[Shiftless2]

There are bikers and there are bikers. Not all bikers are one percenters.

 

[sear]

There are bikers and there are bikers.

And thus there are bikes, and there are bikes. I gather The Hell's Angels require an engine displacement of 1 liter or more.

Not all bikers are one percenters.

I suspect less than 1% of them are, if that. And the biker in #109 is unlikely to be 1%. The motorcycle is "dual-purpose". Any true 1%er could afford to buy enough land to ride a pure off-road machine, motocross for example. The dual-purpose is a compromise, not ideally suited for performance either on road, or off.
And I gather most major road bikes cost about the same as a Mazda Miata.

 

[Shiftless2]

And I gather most major road bikes cost about the same as a Mazda Miata.

Sportsters start at $19,500

 

[sear]

2023 Mazda MX-5 Miata​

Starting at $28,050

Mazda Build & Price Your Vehicle

Build and Price your Mazda vehicle in four simple steps.

www.mazdausa.com

BMW 2023 K 1600 Grand America
Base model $27,465 MSRP

K 1600 Grand America

The BMW K 1600 Grand America represents exclusive and high-quality performance touring for two, driven by the legendary six-cylinder engine.

www.bmwmotorcycles.com

note:
I don't know which of these two gets the better highway fuel economy.
Motorcycles aren't very aerodynamic. They may be about the same at 70 MPH.

As a motorcyclist I've spent enough time sheltering from rain under an overpass to appreciate the utility of a convertible roof.
For those living in Aridzona 2 wheels may be plenty. I live in New York. So two wheels are not an option about 6 months of the year. "Differn't Strokes ..."

 

[Shiftless2]

What one percenter would ride a BMW?

 

[Shiftless2]

From Oz ...

"Nah mate she was tottering towards us, steak knife in one hand, which was also holding onto the handles of her walker. Feared for my life mate, I'm lucky to have made it out of that one."

 

[sear]

"Nah mate she was tottering towards us, steak knife in one hand, which was also holding onto the handles of her walker. Feared for my life mate, I'm lucky to have made it out of that one."

Bloke ain't fit to be a COP.
McD's is hiring.

"Feared for my life mate" Ausi #118

 

[Shiftless2]

Are you sure he's fit to work at Mickey Dee's?