But the call was public, on video, and not the way you would ask for a criminal manipulation of voter fraud.
The Second Term of Donald J. Trump as President of the United States of America
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But the call was public, on video, and not the way you would ask for a criminal manipulation of voter fraud.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
You actually think Donnie is that smart? He just figured he could call and tell them how many votes he wanted and, since he's convinced he's all powerful, it would happen.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
R5,
I'm not absolutely certain, but iirc I learned of this via television news.
And iirc the news presentation was Trump audio, perhaps with audio track graphic: (might have looked a little like this)
along with the audio.
And iirc the news report was otherwise presented as surreptitiously recorded audio.
Please understand R5, I'm not calling you a big fat stinky-pooh lyre.
More likely in my opinion, a false memory. Perhaps the broadcast you monitored included a graphic of the president's face, to make clear who it was that was speaking, since / if there was no video, only audio (as would be the case w/ telephone).
- AND -
You, and I, and Trump KNOW that conversation was not as secure as what takes place inside the white house situation room. BUT !
Trump was desperate. Trump KNEW he would lose the presidency if he couldn't fudge the election, thus the audio both you and I seem to have heard.
If I'm wrong about any of that R5, it should be a simple matter to post just a fragment of it, enough to corroborate your position.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
That's what I remember as well.
The Butler, PA did it !
S2,
I don't know what to make of that vid.
a) The amount of time elapsed between event & video suggests there's been enough time to fabricate fiction.
b) We should take care not to misinterpret this. For example, in my opinion, silly to suggest the shooter was a Trump accomplice, as if Trump's instruction was: not a lethal shot, just nick me in the ear, for sympathy.
Even if the video is unaltered, what does it mean?
I'm not sure there's a problem. Looks like teamwork to me, the man operating the camera has the dexterity challenge of operating the camera, framing the shot, possibly focusing image, etc.
note: operating a camera like that is such a hideous headache, such cameras often are so feature-rich, with so many buttons and knobs, it's a challenge simply holding the camera steady without initiating multiple unwanted functions.
So assistance from a colleague to help compose the shot in a dynamic, historic situation looks sensible, professional to me. No?
Perhaps R5 can clear it up one way or t'other.
R5,
I appreciate what seems to me to be your inclination to avoid reflexively accepting the most damaging, most character-assassinating interpretation.
In the case of this Trump audio, I sincerely believe it's misplaced.
Yes I do think Trump is pretty smart when it comes to business or law.
I think he would have left no evidence if asking for something illegal.
Apparently there was no video.
{...
According to the publicly released recording of the call and reports made by multiple news agencies, Trump attempted to pressure Raffensperger into reinvestigating the election results, despite being repeatedly told that there was no electoral error. Trump's repeated efforts to convince Raffensperger to find some basis to overturn the election results were perceived as pleading and threatening. At one point on the call, Trump told Raffensperger, "What I want to do is this. I just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state."<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call#cite_note-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a> During the call, Trump falsely suggested that Raffensperger could have committed a criminal offense by refusing to overturn the state's election results.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call#cite_note-:3-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> Legal experts have suggested that Trump's behavior and demands could have violated state and federal laws.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call#cite_note-8"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call#cite_note-might_violate-9"><span>[</span>9<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call#cite_note-jeopardy-10"><span>[</span>10<span>]</span></a>
...}
{...
According to the publicly released recording of the call and reports made by multiple news agencies, Trump attempted to pressure Raffensperger into reinvestigating the election results, despite being repeatedly told that there was no electoral error. Trump's repeated efforts to convince Raffensperger to find some basis to overturn the election results were perceived as pleading and threatening. At one point on the call, Trump told Raffensperger, "What I want to do is this. I just want to find, uh, 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state."<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call#cite_note-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a> During the call, Trump falsely suggested that Raffensperger could have committed a criminal offense by refusing to overturn the state's election results.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call#cite_note-:3-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> Legal experts have suggested that Trump's behavior and demands could have violated state and federal laws.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call#cite_note-8"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call#cite_note-might_violate-9"><span>[</span>9<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call#cite_note-jeopardy-10"><span>[</span>10<span>]</span></a>
...}
Help me out here R5.
Since childhood my view of U.S. presidents from either party was,
they may hold partisan political view & ambitions, BUT !!
a) they would still generally adhere to law, &
b) while they had ambitions about outcome, they were generally willing to adhere to process.
Further, I got the impression there was a significant component of their personal motive for public service, to benefit the People.
In vivid contrast, my opinion of Trump is that Trump was willing to lie his way into office, mainly for self-benefit.
Withholding federal funds from States that voted against Trump is but one example.
If not to enjoy the retribution, why?
Trump / Vance / Musk bashed up the system, ostensibly to save $money.
But after the longest U.S. federal shutdown in history, reports indicate U.S. federal deficit & debt continue apace.
And while personal dissatisfaction of an anonymous Internet administrator might explain my attitude,
does it explain the number of Republicans exiting Speaker Johnson's house?
Shiftless2
Well-known member
Did he know somebody was recording the call? My recollection is he didn't realize it.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
Epstein & Mar-a-Lago
Mar-a-Lago Was Key to Jeffrey Epstein’s Criminal Enterprise
New reporting shows that Trump’s split with his pedophile friend was opportunistic.
www.thenation.com
Teen models, powerful men and private dinners: when Trump hosted Look of the Year
In the early 90s, Donald Trump judged contestants at the world’s biggest modelling competition - since hit by allegations of abuse. This is how the people who were there remember it
www.theguardian.com
Right from the beginning is was clear Trump intended to not care about appearances of bad conduct.
He should have divested as all other presidents have done, and he did not.
The only reason that did not bother me too much was that I felt the democrats were doing even worse with the 2 impeachments and prosecutions over the hush money and classified docs.
It was the impeachments and prosecutions that actually were illegal in my opinion.
However, the current actions by Trump, like with ICE and Venezuela, are much worse than anything anyone has ever done before, in my opinion.
Getting back to the Georgia call on votes, since I do not remember any threats or bribes, it did not seem to rise to the level of a crime to me?
But if I remember correctly, there still were other people in the room, on both sides.
And normally criminal demands come with either bribes or threats, which I do not remember.
My understanding, not by recollection but by inference, is that Trump didn't have all the details about conditions on the other end of the line in the telephone call,
but that Trump was desperate enough to risk it.
Ethically deliberately to overthrow a U.S. presidential election is unacceptable, PARTICULARLY when for self-gain.
Legally?
I can't quote the statutory language. But I'd like to believe adding "11,780 votes" to his own vote tally is not legal. If it is, why bother to hold an election? Just let the candidates choose their own vote tallies. Right?
Anyone can ask for a recount if they are willing to pay for it.
My impression was Trump wanted Georgia to pick up the tab?
Shiftless2
Well-known member
Yes, what Trump has done with ICE and the National Guard are the most serious problems.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
US launches strikes on Venezuela, captures President Maduro and charges him with drug offences
- The US has captured Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro and his wife and launched a "large-scale" strike against the country, Donald Trump says
- Attorney General Pam Bondi says he has been indicted in New York on drugs and weapons charges and will "face the full wrath of American justice on American soil in American courts"
- US Secretary of State Marco Rubio anticipates no further action against Venezuela, according to a Republican senator
- Venezuela has declared a national emergency, denouncing "extremely serious military aggression"
- "My heart was pumping and legs were shaking," an eyewitness in Caracas tells the BBC - footage shows huge plumes of smoke rising over the city
- It follows weeks of heightened tension as Trump ramped up pressure on Maduro - how did we get here?
Venezuela latest: Trump says US has 'captured' President Maduro in strikes on country - live updates
The US attorney general says Maduro will face "American justice on American soil"; meanwhile, Venezuela condemns the "extremely serious military aggression".
www.bbc.com
Other countries in the region aren't exactly happy with this - if you read down you'll see that some are deploying troops on their borders.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
Next time around this guy should tell us what he really feels. No holding back.
How dare you implicate over 75,000,000 true Americans in your international terrorism! Fuck you! Fuck Hegseth! And fuck every traitor to the Constitution that voted for you, assisted you in the destruction of the US, assisted you in the ILLEGAL invasion of Venezuela, assisted you in the KIDNAPPING of US citizens, protected souls on US soil, assisted in protecting you from your crimes against children and who now assist you in the KIDNAPPING of the leader of a sovereign nation.
I cannot wait for the trials to begin for you and everyone who enabled you.
With their assistance in the genocide in Gaza, their reluctance to support Ukraine and now with the invasion of Venezuela, The Republican party is now an international terrorist group.
How dare you implicate over 75,000,000 true Americans in your international terrorism! Fuck you! Fuck Hegseth! And fuck every traitor to the Constitution that voted for you, assisted you in the destruction of the US, assisted you in the ILLEGAL invasion of Venezuela, assisted you in the KIDNAPPING of US citizens, protected souls on US soil, assisted in protecting you from your crimes against children and who now assist you in the KIDNAPPING of the leader of a sovereign nation.
I cannot wait for the trials to begin for you and everyone who enabled you.
With their assistance in the genocide in Gaza, their reluctance to support Ukraine and now with the invasion of Venezuela, The Republican party is now an international terrorist group.