News Related To The Ukraine / Russian War

[Rigby5]

Problem is, aggression dominates.

Putin is astoundingly primitive. Putin thinks the way to advantage Russia is to expand Russia's own borders.
Japan may be a useful counterexample.

The ideas that Dr. Deming carried to Japan were those of understanding basic statistical concepts and applying them to the understanding of industrial processes.

Eastern Illinois University :: Error404

Error404.

castle.eiu.edu

Either Russia is taught that waging War is not a viable means for Russian success in the 3rd millennium,
or the world will be at War with Russia in the 3rd millennium.

But I think you are forgetting that the Ukraine is historically part of Russian and is essential to Russia, not only in history and culture, but also in agriculture and defense.
Putin is not trying to "expand" Russia's borders, but simply to prevent them from shrinking.

The US essentially stole the Ukraine from Russia in 2014, by Hunter Biden bribing the ethnic Polish generals into taking over in the Maidan Coup.
That really would not be acceptable to any country.

 

[sear]

"... Ukraine is historically part of Russian" R5 #301

It's been both.

"... and is essential to Russia" R5 #301

And yet Russia prospered without Ukraine, from the only GHWB administration to Trump's second.

Russia can get along just fine without Ukraine, and Crimea for that matter.

"not only in history and culture, but also in agriculture and defense" R5 #301

"Defense"?
Against whom / what?
Chechens have made trouble for Russia. How is Russia acquiring some or all Ukraine going to solve that?

NATO expands. BUT !
I don't recall NATO expanding via aggressive military conquest.
To the contrary.
Rather than military invasion Russia style, NATO expands by non-member nations applying for acceptance into NATO's organization.

Russia pretending it must bristle with modern weaponry to defend against that is ridiculous.

"Putin is not trying to "expand" Russia's borders, but simply to prevent them from shrinking." R5 #301

- piffle -
Crimea disproves that.
And Putin massing his forces on Ukraine's border years ago, preparing for the currently ongoing War was not defensive.

Please cite an indication of Ukraine's territorial expansionism that necessitated Russia's current War in Ukraine.

 

[Rigby5]

It's been both.


And yet Russia prospered without Ukraine, from the only GHWB administration to Trump's second.

Russia can get along just fine without Ukraine, and Crimea for that matter.


"Defense"?
Against whom / what?
Chechens have made trouble for Russia. How is Russia acquiring some or all Ukraine going to solve that?

NATO expands. BUT !
I don't recall NATO expanding via aggressive military conquest.
To the contrary.
Rather than military invasion Russia style, NATO expands by non-member nations applying for acceptance into NATO's organization.

Russia pretending it must bristle with modern weaponry to defend against that is ridiculous.


- piffle -
Crimea disproves that.
And Putin massing his forces on Ukraine's border years ago, preparing for the currently ongoing War was not defensive.

Please cite an indication of Ukraine's territorial expansionism that necessitated Russia's current War in Ukraine.

I disagree.
Russia has never been without the Crimea or the Ukraine.
When Gorbachev dissolved the USSR in 1992, that did not change the Russian use of Sevastopol or the economic trade between the Ukraine and Russia.
It was not until the Ukraine illegally tried to prevent Russian use of Sevastopol that Russia was forced to retake the Crimea.
It is only the current attempt by Zelensky to join the EU and NATO that threatens Russia and what Russia cannot allow.

I would also counter that since NATO actually is the old colonial imperialists who invaded most of the world, their actual intent is incredibly aggressive and hostile.
There is nothing remotely defensive about NATO really.
Not only are the main actors of NATO the ones who started WWI, but they also illegally invaded or took out the leadership of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, the Ukraine, and Syria more recently.

 

[sear]

#303

Russia's desire for a warm water port is well known to many a high school student.

Many nations are landlocked. They don't cease to exist because of it. They adapt.

 

[Rigby5]

Russia's desire for a warm water port is well known to many a high school student.

Many nations are landlocked. They don't cease to exist because of it. They adapt.

Like the Ukraine, the Crimea is traditionally part of Russia.
It was only given to the Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1954 because he secretly was a Ukrainian.
But he actually did not have the legal authority to give the Crimea away like that.

Any landlocked country would cease to exist if some crazy, belligerent country like the US was constantly attacking them.

 

[sear]

BUSINESS INSIDER

Ukraine is turning private companies loose on Russian attack drones​

By Jake Epstein
Ukraine's military is letting private companies join in the air defense fight as Russia bombards the country with a growing number of attack drones.
Twenty-seven Ukrainian companies from across the country have already joined the first-of-its-kind initiative, an experimental program that allows them to form their own air defense units. Some of them have already logged combat missions.
Ukrainian Defense Minister Mykhailo Fedorov recently told reporters during an update meeting that the number of companies applying to join the program is growing weekly. He said there's a "strong business interest in this initiative, which provides an additional means of protecting personnel and industrial capacity."

Ukraine is turning private companies loose on Russian attack drones

Dozens of companies have joined an experimental program to participate in Ukrainian air defense operations.

www.businessinsider.com

It's about time!
The West beat the Soviets in Cold War by substituting competition in industrial production for martial attrition.
The Soviets had feeble relations with allies, none capable of increasing the Soviets to Western parity. The End

China has emerged as an industrial powerhouse.
But for apparently obvious reasons China doesn't seem particularly interested in infusing a megalomaniac like Putin with the power to easily accomplish territorial conquest.

 

[Rigby5]

BUSINESS INSIDER

Ukraine is turning private companies loose on Russian attack drones​

By Jake Epstein
Ukraine's military is letting private companies join in the air defense fight as Russia bombards the country with a growing number of attack drones.
Twenty-seven Ukrainian companies from across the country have already joined the first-of-its-kind initiative, an experimental program that allows them to form their own air defense units. Some of them have already logged combat missions.
Ukrainian Defense Minister Mykhailo Fedorov recently told reporters during an update meeting that the number of companies applying to join the program is growing weekly. He said there's a "strong business interest in this initiative, which provides an additional means of protecting personnel and industrial capacity."

Ukraine is turning private companies loose on Russian attack drones

Dozens of companies have joined an experimental program to participate in Ukrainian air defense operations.

www.businessinsider.com

It's about time!
The West beat the Soviets in Cold War by substituting competition in industrial production for martial attrition.
The Soviets had feeble relations with allies, none capable of increasing the Soviets to Western parity. The End

China has emerged as an industrial powerhouse.
But for apparently obvious reasons China doesn't seem particularly interested in infusing a megalomaniac like Putin with the power to easily accomplish territorial conquest.

This is really what the anti-Bolshevik propaganda has always been about.
Not just to scare voters, but to provide a way to funnel tax dollars into private pockets.
The Ukraine was the one who started attacking utilities and infrastructure in Russia with drones.
So Russia is just retaliating in kind.
And this is just a way of profiting from US taxes.

 

[sear]

The widely accepted perception is whatever provocations from decades past cited as relevant to the current War,
Russia is the unmistakable aggressor.
This perception is based on a broad diversity of evidence, chiefly including the initial invasion occurred after Russia massed military forces on Ukraine's border.

"The Ukraine was the one who started attacking utilities and infrastructure in Russia with drones." R5 #307

Even if so, substantially immaterial, as Russian forces have inflicted similar destruction on Ukraine, albeit with occupying military forces.

To participate at all, Ukraine is forced into asymmetric warfare. Please bear in mind, not just for years, not just for decades, but for generations straddling the millennial change,
Russia has been considered a global superpower.

Ukraine never was.

Ukraine hasn't had the resources to spare to roll tanks & troops into Russia to parity, mirror Russia's destruction in Ukraine. That's how asymmetric warfare works.

 

[Rigby5]

The widely accepted perception is whatever provocations from decades past cited as relevant to the current War,
Russia is the unmistakable aggressor.
This perception is based on a broad diversity of evidence, chiefly including the initial invasion occurred after Russia massed military forces on Ukraine's border.

Even if so, substantially immaterial, as Russian forces have inflicted similar destruction on Ukraine, albeit with occupying military forces.

To participate at all, Ukraine is forced into asymmetric warfare. Please bear in mind, not just for years, not just for decades, but for generations straddling the millennial change,
Russia has been considered a global superpower.

Ukraine never was.

Ukraine hasn't had the resources to spare to roll tanks & troops into Russia to parity, mirror Russia's destruction in Ukraine. That's how asymmetric warfare works.

I disagree.
The Ukraine was entirely and patriotically Russian until the Polish invasion that was finally defeated around 1700.

And the Polish still fund subversive anti-Russian activities there.
The US illegally joined into supporting those subversive activities in 2014, to cause the military takeover of the Maidan Coup.
So it has never been a case of "asymmetric warfare", the US and Poland always supplied the Ukraine generals with the latest missiles, tanks, planes, etc.
The Ukraine military equipment amounts to a higher value than all the Russian military equipment combined.

What you seem to forget is that while Kyiv is in the western Polish half of the Ukraine, Russia is simply liberating the eastern half, which is entirely ethnic Russian.
The US is using the Ukraine to harm Russia, just as the US did by giving the latest Stinger missiles to the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in 1979.

 

[sear]

R5 #309

If the habitation since "around 1700" had been continuous, and the rule was foreign authoritarianism against the will of the People there,
the detail you've disclosed might seem relevant.

President Bush assured US his military invasion / occupation of Iraq would be "welcomed as liberators".
Then the bloody insurrection ensued.

So even when it's not history from centuries ago, but as recent as after breakfast today, it's not for Russia to invade, and to your way of thinking, set right.

If the good People of Ukraine had a problem with it, it would have been their choice whether to do something about it, or not.
They chose not.

A N D !!!

They're STILL choosing not !

You think your irrelevant trivia about "around 1700" is going to change any of that?

 

[Rigby5]

If the habitation since "around 1700" had been continuous, and the rule was foreign authoritarianism against the will of the People there,
the detail you've disclosed might seem relevant.

President Bush assured US his military invasion / occupation of Iraq would be "welcomed as liberators".
Then the bloody insurrection ensued.

So even when it's not history from centuries ago, but as recent as after breakfast today, it's not for Russia to invade, and to your way of thinking, set right.

If the good People of Ukraine had a problem with it, it would have been their choice whether to do something about it, or not.
They chose not.

A N D !!!

They're STILL choosing not !

You think your irrelevant trivia about "around 1700" is going to change any of that?

I am fine with the "will of the people" if that is what you mean.
What I would do is hold referendums, and then when the majority votes Polish, I would cede those regions to Poland.
When the majority votes Russian, I would return those regions to Russia.
There is no "the Ukraine", and it makes no sense to force opposing factions together into a fake country.

But there are some very bad things about the Ukraine.
First of all, the Azov Battalion is not just pro-Polish, but are evil racist vigilantes who have murdered over 30k ethnic Russian natives of the Ukraine.
Second is that the Polish generals have not just been accepting bribes and weapons from Poland and the US, but have been trying to prevent Russian use of Sevastopol, put NATO nukes on Russia's border, supporting the Azov Battalion crimes, and want to join the EU in harming Russia economically.

When you say, "They're STILL choosing not", I think you are forgetting that the ethnic Polish have all the weapons and are preventing the will of the ethnic Russians from being seen.

 

[sear]

"I am fine with the "will of the people" if that is what you mean." R5 #311

"American people are friends of Liberty everywhere, but custodians only of their own." John Adams

We're on thin ice on it no matter what.
With a human population of the size at issue here, it's preposterous to infer ideological / citizenship unanimity.
Some have ties to Poland, some to Russia, some elsewhere.
Their unity is as Ukranians.
If Russia / Putin thought he had a legitimate claim to Ukraine, it should have been announced at the U.N.
After all, only a select, privileged few have a seat on the Security Council, Russia among them.

Putin didn't.
Putin did as he did with Crimea, simply invaded, for purpose of territorial conquest.

"What I would do is hold referendums, and then when the majority votes Polish, I would cede those regions to Poland." R5 #311

The U.S. pretends to self-determination.
But the Declaration of Independence was not written to any of the aboriginal American chiefs. It was written to King George III.

The political legitimacy of the United States Constitution may never have been under greater threat than it is under President Trump.
Otherwise it may have substantial legitimacy.
But the territorial claim it holds to much of the lower 48, not so much.

In that context from the Adams quotation onward, the U.S. may not have impeccable leadership standing regarding Ukraine / Russia.
So we play favorites, supplying arms & intel. to Ukraine.

But the U.S. has no legitimate claim to purity in the matter.

"What I would do is hold referendums, and then when the majority votes Polish, I would cede those regions to Poland." R5 #311

And if in November 2026 referendum the Southern Confederate States voted to secede, should Trump allow it,
despite Trump's Constitutional obligation not to?

Jefferson advocated self-determination, the pretense of legitimacy the colonists used to convert themselves from royal subjects to citizens.
Lincoln suppressed the Civil War, more Americans lost to that War than any other, including either World War.

Constitutionally congress is tasked with:

ARTICLE 1. SECTION 8.
1 The Congress shall have Power

ARTICLE 1. SECTION 8.
15 To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions ...

That may protect the U.S. from the Martians.
But Kyiv from Moscow?