What to call this thread?

[Rigby5]

The why haven't they banned Michael Phelps?

And why don't they forbid extremely tall people from playing basketball (I remember visiting some friends in Toronto and when the elevator doors in their condo opened I was looking at somebody's belt buckle - asked my friends about it - seems he plays for the Raptors and lives down the hall from them).


Surprisingly that's not the case.


BTW, that includes the "strength" sports - weightlifting, field events, and so forth.

This is beyond my expertise, but I believe that all people who exercise regularly, participate in sports, and compete, have higher hormone levels.
{...

Weight Lifting and Hormones​

Weight lifting can significantly impact hormone levels, particularly anabolic hormones like testosterone, growth hormone (GH), and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1). These hormones play crucial roles in muscle growth, fat metabolism, and overall metabolic health. Here's how weight lifting affects these hormones:

• Testosterone: Weight lifting stimulates testosterone release, which is essential for muscle growth and strength. In men, this can lead to increased muscle mass and strength. In women, testosterone levels may also increase, contributing to muscle tone and energy.
  https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=93cf...sZXZlbHMtYW5kLXBoeXNpY2FsLXN0cmVuZ3RoLw&ntb=1
• Growth Hormone (GH): High-intensity weight lifting can trigger GH release, promoting lean muscle development and fat loss. GH also stimulates the production of IGF-1, which further supports muscle growth.
  https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=93cf...sZXZlbHMtYW5kLXBoeXNpY2FsLXN0cmVuZ3RoLw&ntb=1
• Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 (IGF-1): IGF-1 works closely with GH to drive muscle growth. After weight lifting, IGF-1 helps rebuild and strengthen muscle fibers, increasing muscle size and performance.
  https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=93cf...sZXZlbHMtYW5kLXBoeXNpY2FsLXN0cmVuZ3RoLw&ntb=1
• Cortisol: While cortisol levels may temporarily spike during weight lifting, consistent weight lifting can help lower chronic cortisol levels over time, supporting muscle preservation and fat loss.
  https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=93cf...sZXZlbHMtYW5kLXBoeXNpY2FsLXN0cmVuZ3RoLw&ntb=1
  
  Weight lifting also influences other hormones, such as estrogen, but the effects are more nuanced and can vary based on individual factors. It's important to maintain a balanced exercise program that includes both resistance training and aerobic activities to support overall hormonal balance.

...}

It is my opinion that anyone who is taller, stronger, has more muscle mass, etc., has had more hormone exposure.
The point of exercise and training is to promote hormones and that is what you are comparing with sports competition, as opposed to getting hormones from a bottle or by birth.

 

[Shiftless2]

This is beyond my expertise, but I believe that all people who exercise regularly, participate in sports, and compete, have higher hormone levels.

If you read my previous comment you'd know that's not the case.

It is my opinion that anyone who is taller, stronger, has more muscle mass, etc., has had more hormone exposure.

Again - read my previous comment.

The point of exercise and training is to promote hormones and that is what you are comparing with sports competition, as opposed to getting hormones from a bottle or by birth.

While exercise does affect hormone levels (both positively and negatively) it's not exactly simple.

How Exercise Really Affects Your Testosterone, According to Doctors

It's not as simple as you might think.

www.menshealth.com

How Does Physical Activity Modulate Hormone Responses? - PMC

Physical activity highly impacts the neuroendocrine system and hormonal secretion. Numerous variables, both those related to the individual, including genetics, age, sex, biological rhythms, nutritional status, level of training, intake of drugs or ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Rigby5]

If you read my previous comment you'd know that's not the case.


Again - read my previous comment.


While exercise does affect hormone levels (both positively and negatively) it's not exactly simple.

How Exercise Really Affects Your Testosterone, According to Doctors

It's not as simple as you might think.

www.menshealth.com

How Does Physical Activity Modulate Hormone Responses? - PMC

Physical activity highly impacts the neuroendocrine system and hormonal secretion. Numerous variables, both those related to the individual, including genetics, age, sex, biological rhythms, nutritional status, level of training, intake of drugs or ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Testosterone is not the only hormone, and obviously some hormone increases or you would not be able to increase muscle mass.

 

[Shiftless2]

Testosterone is not the only hormone...

That's why I gave two links - one for testosterone and one for hormones in general.

... and obviously some hormone increases or you would not be able to increase muscle mass.

No. While exercise may increase hormone levels (depending on the type of exercise) your conclusion doesn't follow.

 

[Shiftless2]

The check sitting on the mahogany desk was for three hundred and sixty-three thousand dollars.Edith Windsor, 80 years old, her hair a distinguished blonde bob, her frame slight but upright, was writing a check to the United States government for the privilege of inheriting her own wife's belongings.If her spouse had been a man, the tax bill would have been zero. Federal law allows husbands and wives to pass assets to each other without penalty, acknowledging that a marriage is a partnership where ....

MORE>

 

[Rigby5]

That's why I gave two links - one for testosterone and one for hormones in general.


No. While exercise may increase hormone levels (depending on the type of exercise) your conclusion doesn't follow.

You can not increase muscle mass without an increase in the hormones that regulate muscle mass.

 

[Shiftless2]

You can not increase muscle mass without an increase in the hormones that regulate muscle mass.

You're confusing cause and effect. There is no need to increase hormones to increase muscle mass.

However, if you do exercise it will (likely) increase your hormones.

 

[Rigby5]

You're confusing cause and effect. There is no need to increase hormones to increase muscle mass.

However, if you do exercise it will (likely) increase your hormones.

This is at the edge of my expertise, but I believe that the ONLY way to increase muscle mass if through the increase of hormones.
I believe that is the purpose of hormones, to tell cells in the body when increase or changes are needed.

 

[Shiftless2]

So you're saying that if I go to the gym and don't juice I'll never increase muscle mass?

Or are you saying that if I go to the gym and increase muscle mass my hormones will increase?

That is, which is cause and which is effect?

 

[sear]

This what the AI guy said:
Increased muscle mass does not directly increase testosterone levels. While higher testosterone can enhance muscle growth and recovery, the relationship is more complex. Factors such as training intensity, diet, and individual physiology play significant roles in this interaction. Regular resistance training can boost testosterone levels, but simply gaining muscle does not guarantee an increase in testosterone production.

There's more to hormones than testosterone.

 

[Rigby5]

So you're saying that if I go to the gym and don't juice I'll never increase muscle mass?

Or are you saying that if I go to the gym and increase muscle mass my hormones will increase?

That is, which is cause and which is effect?

I have not looked this up, but I think I know how it works.
What I believe is that without hormones, a muscle cell will only reproduce when it dying, so you gain no muscle mass normally.
The only thing that can increase muscle mass is messages from the rest of the body, for muscle cells to replicate before they are ready to die.
And I believe it is hormones that are that message.
So then working out at the gym can only create more muscle mass if the workout triggers hormones.
But going to the gym is not the only way to create hormones that trigger muscle growth.

 

[Rigby5]

This what the AI guy said:
Increased muscle mass does not directly increase testosterone levels. While higher testosterone can enhance muscle growth and recovery, the relationship is more complex. Factors such as training intensity, diet, and individual physiology play significant roles in this interaction. Regular resistance training can boost testosterone levels, but simply gaining muscle does not guarantee an increase in testosterone production.

There's more to hormones than testosterone.

Good point in that I don't know much about which hormones do what?
Testosterone may control the type of muscle cells more than it controls how many we should have?

 

[Shiftless2]

Trans athletes may be at a disadvantage



The original study

Strength, power and aerobic capacity of transgender athletes: a cross-sectional study

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/58/11/586

 

[Rigby5]

Trans athletes may be at a disadvantage

View attachment 3730

The original study

Strength, power and aerobic capacity of transgender athletes: a cross-sectional study

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/58/11/586

Interesting, but it changes nothing.
A sample of 20 people of each group is not relevant.
The point is that if any one single individual has an unfair advantage, it ruins everything.
And there are some sports where obviously trans have unfair advantages.
For example, in swimming competition, where length of arms and legs make a big difference from testosterone.
While in something like gymnastics, the lower center of gravity of estrogen is an advantage.

 

[sear]

"Trans athletes may be at a disadvantage" S2 #1,233

Waffling.
Some arguments are the difference if any doesn't matter.
#1,233 argues there is a difference, and it matters.

 

[Shiftless2]

The point is that if any one single individual has an unfair advantage, it ruins everything.
And there are some sports where obviously trans have unfair advantages.
For example, in swimming competition, where length of arms and legs make a big difference from testosterone.
While in something like gymnastics, the lower center of gravity of estrogen is an advantage.

So we shouldn't let abnormally tall people play basketball?

For example, in swimming competition, where length of arms and legs make a big difference from testosterone.

So Michael Phelps shouldn't be allowed to compete as a swimmer?

BTW, are you suggesting that 6'4" blonde that lives next door to me owes her leg length to testosterone? And what about that female basketball team? Or volleyball team? Or .....

 

[Rigby5]

So we shouldn't let abnormally tall people play basketball?


So Michael Phelps shouldn't be allowed to compete as a swimmer?

BTW, are you suggesting that 6'4" blonde that lives next door to me owes her leg length to testosterone? And what about that female basketball team? Or volleyball team? Or .....

The whole point is to divide categories for those with built in advantages so that they do not overshadow the accomplishments earned by training.
That is normally obvious between biological males and females in general.
But I agree there are still exceptions, with some females very tall due to conditions that created an excess of testosterone, and some males with conditions with a shortage of testosterone.
The point is that no matter what the cause, you do not want unearned qualities to overshadow qualities that are earned by hard work.

 

[sear]

5 takeaways from the Supreme Court’s showdown over transgender athletes​

Josh Gerstein and Bianca Quilantan Tue, January 13, 2026 at 8:07 PM EST·
The Supreme Court on Tuesday weighed in for the first time on transgender athletes participating in women’s sports — ...

SCOTUS hears arguments in transgender female athletes case​

Tue, January 13, 2026 at 1:29 PM EST
Transgender students from Idaho and West Virginia are challenging state bans on allowing transgender females in girls sports.

5 takeaways from the Supreme Court’s showdown over transgender athletes

The court’s conservative majority appeared inclined to allow the red-state bans.

news.yahoo.com

 

[sear]

EXCLUSIVE: Franklin Graham’s daughter calls women’s sports fight a ‘Genesis 1 issue’ at Supreme Court​

Graham Lynch said 'this isn't a political issue, it's a Genesis 1 issue' of women's sports cases​

By Jasmine Baehr Fox News Published January 13, 2026 9:34pm EST
Cissie Graham Lynch says we need to be 'praying that truth will prevail' in women's sports cases
Franklin Graham’s daughter and host of the 'Fearless with Cissie Graham Lynch’ podcast reacts outside the Supreme Court, Tuesday, as justices hear cases on women’s sports. (Courtesy of Samaritan's Purse)
Cissie Graham Lynch, a senior advisor at Samaritan’s Purse and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, said the fight over women’s sports is rooted in biblical truth as the Supreme Court heard arguments in cases involving laws designed to protect female athletes.
Graham Lynch attended the Supreme Court arguments Tuesday in Washington, D.C., and spoke exclusively to Fox News Digital, saying the moment carries generational consequences for women and girls.
"This isn’t a political issue, this is a Genesis 1 issue," Graham Lynch said. "Regardless of what the Supreme Court decides, God’s Word is clear—men are men and women are women. And today, I’m grateful girls finally had their historic day in court to say just that."

EXCLUSIVE: Franklin Graham’s daughter calls women’s sports fight a ‘Genesis 1 issue’ at Supreme Court

Cissie Graham Lynch of Samaritan's Purse calls Supreme Court women's sports case a 'Genesis 1 issue' rooted in biblical truth as justices hear women athletes' arguments.

www.foxnews.com

Cissie [sic],
Educated persons may share your view, or not.
But on the premise that you are right, if it's "a Genesis 1 issue" then our long-tenured tradition of separation of Church and State binds on our Supreme Court in ruling on this case.
Therefore within bounds of law, Christians may do as they wish. Any Christian transgender girl that wishes to not compete in women's sports is free to make that decision for herself. Likewise
any non-Christian transgender girl? Or a Christian transgender girl that interprets holy scripture differently? Or are you more comfortable with a double-standard, Madame Lynch?