Israel's War on Civilization


This incident occurred on November 16, 2024.

A 64-year-old woman, Alexandra Szustakiewicz, was arrested and charged with two felony hate crime counts and disorderly conduct after attacking a Palestinian-American couple at a Downers Grove Panera Bread. The incident, recorded on video and widely shared on Reddit, showed her verbally abusing and physically assaulting the couple, including attempting to throw hot coffee and hitting the man, over his "Free Palestine" sweatshirt.

The confrontation, targeting the man and his pregnant wife, has fueled discussions on anti-Palestinian sentiment, with the couple facing both support and threats online.


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Israel....where the rapists walk free, and the whistle blowers are under investigation

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This is Israel, this is what Israel does to Palestinians every day. This is what every US politician supports, what every Israeli politician supports, what they have made illegal to protest or object to.​


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Just imagine, just for a fleeting second, what the worlds reaction would be if this, any of this, were being done by Palestinians to Israelis.


 
"Israel has attacked Gaza nearly every day of the ceasefire" November 10, 2025 #87
The United States has retained a less than wholesome political stand on this troubled area through Democrat and Republican administrations alike.

Why?
Because we're not smart enough to know better?

Apparently the Israeli lobby has obtained from U.S. politics a commitment more reliable than U.S. commitment to fairness, anti-oppression.

Innocent civilians are dying there, with full knowledge of U.S. federal government.
Is it any wonder innocent civilians are dying here in the U.S., in Minnesota, with full knowledge of U.S. federal government?

"Choose your enemy well, for he is who you will become." old Hebrew adage
Not only does this look dire both there and here.
But reasonable projections of current U.S. politics suggest Renee Good, & Alex Pretti will not be the last to die at the hands of Trump's bloodthirsty henchmen.

Three more years ! Three more years ! Three more years ! Three more years ! Three more years ! Three more years ! Three more years ! Three more years !
 
Is that not a violation of international law? BUT !
Israel claims its enemy uses such infrastructure as hospitals and schools as base for military combat operations. Would that not also violate international law?

In the NFL "those penalties offset ..." . It appears digging deeper will be required to implement a permanent resolution.

Actually it is not a violation of international law to use hospitals or schools as headquarters for military operations.
It is only a violation to use them for things like weapons depots.
But the Palestinians have no weapons really, so can't really be in violation.

In fact, Palestine is like the French Resistance in WWII, and are pretty much justified in doing anything they can, since they are the victim.
Israel has stolen over 90% of Palestine, and imposed a starvation blockade for decades.
The Palestinians are justified in doing anything they can.
 
"Actually it is not a violation of international law to use hospitals or schools as headquarters for military operations." R5 #90
You're welcome to post authoritative support for this assertion. The following source contradicts you: https://www.icrc.org/en/document/protection-hospitals-during-armed-conflicts-what-law-says

Military headquarters so far as I know legitimate warfare targets. Hospitals are not, unless such hospital is not neutral.

"It is only a violation to use them for things like weapons depots." R5 #90
It is also a violation to use them for things like weapons depots.

It's basically an issue of neutrality. Such hospital is required to treat injured troops from either combatant force equally. Serving as a base of operations for either side removes that neutrality, and the protections neutrality confers.
 
You're welcome to post authoritative support for this assertion. The following source contradicts you: https://www.icrc.org/en/document/protection-hospitals-during-armed-conflicts-what-law-says

Military headquarters so far as I know legitimate warfare targets. Hospitals are not, unless such hospital is not neutral.


It is also a violation to use them for things like weapons depots.

It's basically an issue of neutrality. Such hospital is required to treat injured troops from either combatant force equally. Serving as a base of operations for either side removes that neutrality, and the protections neutrality confers.

My understanding is that military headquarters are not legal targets.
Normally assassination of generals is never done.
The only exception I know of is when the US shot down Admiral Yamamoto in WWII.
And I think that not only was illegal, but a very bad idea that cause the war to be extended, since Yamamoto wanted Japan to surrender.

Technically headquarters are not a force of aggression that can be attacked under the principle of self defense.
The laws were made by those who are likely to be in those headquarters, so they would have a vested interest.
But historically headquarters are not normally ever attacked as far as I know.
 
"My understanding is that military headquarters are not legal targets." R5 #92
"The laws were made by those who are likely to be in those headquarters, so they would have a vested interest.
But historically headquarters are not normally ever attacked as far as I know." R5 #92
When at war one must take care not to extinguish any viable authority to surrender. That's rather more pragmatism than international law.

"Normally assassination of generals is never done." R5 #92
Understood, for reasons including above, though we did it to Iran.

"Technically headquarters are not a force of aggression that can be attacked under the principle of self defense." R5 #92
The brain of a bully will never steal your lunch money. BUT !
A bully without a brain won't either.

If the commanding general is wearing the uniform, rank and insignia of the enemy, s/he's fair game. I know of no commissioned officer exception.
 
When at war one must take care not to extinguish any viable authority to surrender. That's rather more pragmatism than international law.


Understood, for reasons including above, though we did it to Iran.


The brain of a bully will never steal your lunch money. BUT !
A bully without a brain won't either.

If the commanding general is wearing the uniform, rank and insignia of the enemy, s/he's fair game. I know of no commissioned officer exception.

Palestine is a slightly different situation for many reasons.
For example, Palestine was illegally prevented from ever having arms or army.
The Turks of the Ottoman Empire illegally invaded and oppressed from around 1500 AD.
Then the British who were supposed to help them become able to defend themselves, instead illegally prevented arms or armies.
Instead of repaying their obligation for help in WWI, the British tried to turn Palestine into a colony.
Then the Zionists illegally immigrated and took over using illegally smuggled US arms.
The US violated the UN arms embargo on both sides.
The UN was supposed to take up the obligations of the League of Nations, but never did.

Israel has illegally murdered, imprisoned, or exiled over 3 million Palestinians, and illegally starved the other 10 million with an illegal economic blockade.
So it is not actually a condition of war, but of criminal suppression of civilians by an illegal invader.
Under those conditions, the innocent civilian victims are then free to survive in any way they can, including hiding in tunnels under hospitals.
 
"... the innocent civilian victims are then free to survive in any way they can, including hiding in tunnels under hospitals" R5 #94
A prominent element of Middle East bloodlust is vengeance, not just for an hour ago, or a day ago, or a week ago,
but a decade ago, or a century ago, or a millennium ago. It's a recipe for eternal war.

Israel was attacked. That attack the casus belli for Israel converting Gaza into uninhabitable rubble.
Yet Palestine challenges Israel's right to exist.

That's not a dispute than can be permanently resolved with a few sweet words, and a pat on the back.

" hiding in tunnels under hospitals." R5 #94
My terminology may not be ideal, but the notion that armed combatants would be spared by sheltering under hospitals is premised on two notions.
a) The enemy of those combatants is noble enough to respect the rules of international law, and common human decency and grant sanctuary there, and
b) those armed combatants are unethical enough to exploit that nobility for battlefield advantage.

In shirtsleeve English, it's Hamas saying: we're the bad guys.
#95 IDF had stomping a civilian to death
Inexcusable.
Understandable.
 
A prominent element of Middle East bloodlust is vengeance, not just for an hour ago, or a day ago, or a week ago,
but a decade ago, or a century ago, or a millennium ago. It's a recipe for eternal war.

Israel was attacked. That attack the casus belli for Israel converting Gaza into uninhabitable rubble.
Yet Palestine challenges Israel's right to exist.

That's not a dispute than can be permanently resolved with a few sweet words, and a pat on the back.


My terminology may not be ideal, but the notion that armed combatants would be spared by sheltering under hospitals is premised on two notions.
a) The enemy of those combatants is noble enough to respect the rules of international law, and common human decency and grant sanctuary there, and
b) those armed combatants are unethical enough to exploit that nobility for battlefield advantage.

In shirtsleeve English, it's Hamas saying: we're the bad guys.

Inexcusable.
Understandable.

No, I think you have it all wrong and have fallen for propaganda.
There is no history of conflict between Jews and Moslems.

To go back to the start of Islam, it was because the Jews were ordered by the Rabbinical Counsel to leave the Levant after the 2nd rebellion against Rome failed in 136 AD, and they went to Medina.
Which is in what is now Saudi Arabia.
Mohammed was a merchant in Mecca nearby.
He decided he liked Judaism and converted.
But his wife wanted women to be able to own property, inherit, divorce, testify, etc., so those are actually the only real difference between Islam and Judaism.

Then when the Meccans attacked Mohammed, the 12 tribes of Judaism were his soldiers, who defended and later defeated the Meccans.
Which they obviously would not have done if Judaism and Islam were on conflict.

If you read about the Crusades, the Jews fought with the Moslems, against the Christians.
If you read up on any Moslem kingdom, they always had Jewish Viziers, which is sort of a manager/administrator.
If you wonder how Jews got to Spain in order to later be harmed by the Inquisitions, it was because they came with the Moslem Moors.

Obviously the Jews lived under Moslem rule for over 1500 years, and preferred Moslems to Christians.

So then what happened in Palestine?
The Palestinians asked the Jews to immigrate in 1920, since the Palestinians were very poor from WWI.
There were practically no Jews in Palestine at the time.
But the problem was the Jews lied, immigrated in over 10 times the agreed upon annual limit, and smuggled in illegal weapons.
In 1946, the Menachim Begin blew up the British peacekeepers in the King David Hotel, so that no one then could stop his terrorists from wiping out hundreds of native villages like Deir Yassin, forcing millions of Palestinians to flee to places like Egypt, Syria, and Jordan.

So there was no history of violence until the massacres of 1946.

I also disagree that "Israel was attacked".
That is for many reasons.
One is that I do not believe Israel actually exists, since Truman simply pulled it out of thin air in 1948, and because they lost any validity for its massacres of civilians in 1946.
But Israel was not "attacked" because the conflict 3 years ago was started by decades of illegal starvation blockade by Israel.
That more than justified the desperate and suicidal push.
They were so poorly armed that they kill 1000 but took over 1500 losses in the process.
So again, it was actually the Palestinians who were the victims.
And they will continue to be the unarmed victims as long as the US keeps arming Israel illegally.
For Hamas to be "armed combatants", they would need things they do not have, like tanks, artillery, missiles, bombers, ships, etc.
Hamas is really just civilians with small arms.

And let me be clear about religion.
I actually am Jewish, so I know that no Jews are even supposed to be in the Levant.
Jews are supposed to be atoning for the sins of arrogance and pride, and not return to Palestine until the coming of the Messiah.
 
"There is no history of conflict between Jews and Moslems." R5 #97
iirc you and I have addressed this before.
"...slay the infidels wherever ye find them..." Holy Qur'an: Sura (chapter) 9 Verse 5
I know of no English language translation of the Holy Qur'an Islam accepts as authoritative. None the less
this quotation has reportedly not only been used to justify murder against atheists, but also Jews.
Some reports indicate it's also used to justify murder between Shiah and Sunni Muslims, etc.

"So there was no history of violence until the massacres of 1946." R5 #97
Leaving 80 years, generations, an entire lifetime to accumulate "bad blood".
Anyone still alive, AND involved from this pre-violence portion of human history before 1946 was either too young then, or too old now. Result,
in living memory these Peoples have been at odds, and often at war.

"I also disagree that "Israel was attacked"." R5 #97
Perhaps you're right. BUT !
If so the worldwide conspiracy to present alternate perspective is monumentally well coordinated. Ockham's Razor

"I do not believe Israel actually exists" R5 #97
One of two things is true.
a) Either there is literally nothing there, a planet with an abyss upon its surface, and absolutely nothing therein, no humans, no planet, no air, pure pristine vacuum. Or
b) not.
If the latter, what's there has a name. Call it whatever you like. It's nearly universally called "Israel". And even Israel's ostensible enemies admit that.
It can't be removed from the map if it's not there in the first place. If the name of it isn't Israel, what do you prefer to call it?
 
iirc you and I have addressed this before.

I know of no English language translation of the Holy Qur'an Islam accepts as authoritative. None the less
this quotation has reportedly not only been used to justify murder against atheists, but also Jews.
Some reports indicate it's also used to justify murder between Shiah and Sunni Muslims, etc.


Leaving 80 years, generations, an entire lifetime to accumulate "bad blood".
Anyone still alive, AND involved from this pre-violence portion of human history before 1946 was either too young then, or too old now. Result,
in living memory these Peoples have been at odds, and often at war.


Perhaps you're right. BUT !
If so the worldwide conspiracy to present alternate perspective is monumentally well coordinated. Ockham's Razor


One of two things is true.
a) Either there is literally nothing there, a planet with an abyss upon its surface, and absolutely nothing therein, no humans, no planet, no air, pure pristine vacuum. Or
b) not.
If the latter, what's there has a name. Call it whatever you like. It's nearly universally called "Israel". And even Israel's ostensible enemies admit that.
It can't be removed from the map if it's not there in the first place. If the name of it isn't Israel, what do you prefer to call it?

The word "infidel" does not refer to religion.
It mean one who is unfaithful.
And the meaning of Quran, 9th surah, is that AFTER you have twice made treaties with others that they have violated and gone to war, then you no longer can trust them.
After 2 betrayals, then you have to kill them in any way possible.

The Quran is clear you can not harm atheists, Jews, or Christians.
Not only does it say, "there can be no compulsion over religion", but it says, "all Abrahamic religions, like Christianity and Judaism, are equally valid ways to heaven".

Israel is totally fake.
The Zionists were ethnic Polish and Russians, without any Mideast history or ancestry at all.
They came from Khazars who converted around 900 AD, from Turkish ancestry.
Real Jews were told to atone for the sins of arrogance and pride, and stay out of the Mideast.

Historically Israel only existed for about 200 years, from the Hebrew invasion of the Land of Canaan around 1000 BC, to the defeat of the Hebrew by the Assyrian around 800 BC.
The Romans created a puppet Judea around 100 BC, but king Herod was just a Roman who claimed to have converted to Judaism.

In 1945 Truman created the UN, but his main goal was actually to create Israel in 1948, without any legal basis for doing so.
My opinion is that actually the UN created Israel in order to get Jews out of all their countries.
Not only does Israel make no legal sense, but clearly they have stolen over 90% of Palestine, are in violation of the WWI treaties that created Palestine, and are constantly committing war crimes like the starvation blockade.

The last thing real Jews want is to be labeled by the horrendous crimes Israel is committing.
It is Palestine, not Israel, historically, legally, and ethically.
 
"The word "infidel" does not refer to religion.
It mean one who is unfaithful." R5 #99
Which refers to religion.

Problem is, true to the author's intent or not, "...slay the infidels wherever ye find them..." Holy Qur'an: Sura (chapter) 9 Verse 5
is deemed by those brandishing, flailing their scimitars not merely to distinguish supernaturalists from others,
but as posted in #98 used to justify murder between Shiah and Sunni Muslims.

"The Quran is clear you can not harm atheists, Jews, or Christians." R5 #99
And the Holy Bible is equally clear: "turn the other cheek", a passage routinely refuted by a separate Biblical passage
"an eye for an eye".

It is as fundamental as the logic of the syllogism R5.

Major premise / Minor premise / Conclusion

If either premise is wrong, the conclusion is unreliable.

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" is not scriptural justification for merciless violent, injurious child abuse.
It's a reminder to parents that children need guidance to find and stay on the path.

"In 1945 Truman created the UN, but his main goal was actually to create Israel in 1948, without any legal basis for doing so." R5 #99
I was born in '54, not old enough to have lived through WWII. BUT !!
My parents, and my teachers in "public" (government) school lived through it, experienced first-hand the adversities of supply shortages, rationing, etc.

I am second to few in reverence for law, law & order. But I do not, cannot persuasively advocate for adherence to law at expense to humanity.
The world had not merely been through an ordeal. They'd been through a World War, the only nuclear war ever on the planet.
Many Peoples suffered, few more than Jews.
"In 1945 Truman created the UN, but his main goal was actually to create Israel in 1948, without any legal basis for doing so." R5 #99
In this rare exception I'm willing to overlook the motive, though I do believe natives displaced by Balfour were / are entitled to reasonable safeguard.

Bal·four (bălfr′, -fôr′), Arthur James First Earl of Balfour. 1848-1930.
British prime minister (1902-1905) who later served as foreign secretary under David Lloyd George (1916-1919). In 1917 he promised British support for a national homeland for Jews in Palestine,
provided that the rights of existing communities would be safeguarded.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition copyright ©2022 by HarperCollins Publishers. All rights reserved. big emphasis sear's

"My opinion is that actually the UN created Israel in order to get Jews out of all their countries." R5 #99
A win / win.
Nations not wanting them can deport them.
And Israel can welcome them. Didn't we try something similar after the Gulf War, with the Kurds?

R5:
The purpose of law is human benefit. We like to think of this as a rule, yet it is in some circumstance a guideline.
In 1948 it's not difficult to imagine finding a permanent homeland for Jews was in context of post-war Earth, a good idea.

Over 8 Billion with a B humans infest this solar-system. We're fast running out of nomansland to offer Peoples in need. Liberia? A success?

I personally thought integration & assimilation viable. Trump's war on DEI has crippled that process. To benefit whom?
 
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