Elizabeth circling the drain

mark mywords

Active member
they have finally dropped the pretense of QE II having mobility problems and are now accepting that she is a frail and indeed ill 96 year old. for months the official line is that she was cancelling appointments due to 'mobility problems' but she is now cancelling important if ceremonial duties that were to be carried out via "zoom" calls
Her family are scurrying to her side as she spends what appear to be her last days on earth in her summer retreat at Balmoral.
I mean she could have died in the summer when the population would have enjoyed a couple of days paid holiday
 
the queen is dead long live the king
Those are precisely the words I'd intended to post mm. Safe & pleasant journey to you from here your majesty.

I suppose as an Admin. I'm supposed to remain objective here. But I do admire this marvelous monarch.
She has not merely survived but reigned with skill as a calm, confident, stabilizing influence on the U.K., & Earth.

I'm baffled by the unenthusiastic support for former POW Chaz.
I find him an enormously likeable if not admirable man.

Until her dying day, today, Elizabeth was monarch through my now 68 years of life.

The world has lost a great role model, an inspirational leader.

Best wishes King Charles, & the good People of the U.K.
 
mark,
Wasn't understatement a source of pride in the U.K. speaking "the queen's English"? If so you may have nailed it, "mobility problem" then, an "ambient temperature problem" now. That's not an insult to her. To the contrary, it may be she asked that her own personal health emergency not spiral out into a national or global disaster. Even in her death she seems to have held even keel.
 
It may seem duplicitous of me, for I sincerely share a deep & abiding alarm for the potential of a monarch turning autocrat. At this point I wouldn't dream of accusing her majesty of autocracy. Seems to me she's earned her keep, punctuating her regal dedication with near super-human stamina, fulfilling her royal duties until days of her death. She puts me to shame. I do not begrudge her that, but admire and appreciate her inspiration.

Long live Chaz !
 
At this point I'm curious about King Charles. He has some big shoes to fill.
If he tries to duplicate / replace her by mirroring results, he's likely to fail.

But if Charles seizes it as an opportunity to leverage his meager station to successful utilitarian results, Mummy may not overshadow him in the history books.
 
Charles is the woke king and the right wing media already hates him, but he seems to be doing as good a job as you could possibly expect from a king right now, so I don't think he's all that bad really.

That doesn't mean I'm really pro monarchy, but I'm also not particularly for abolishing the monarchy - although they have been embroiled in some awful scandals. It's hard to say on balance - but I'll leave it up to the British people to decide, as I am just one voice among millions.

I am hoping we get independence for Scotland, Norn Irish reunification in the next few years; that would mean liberty and freedom have been served to those respective peoples.
 
like you I am not a monarchist in that if I was building a country from scratch it wouldnt be a monarchy but I recognise that we are where we are.
These "awful scandals" that you speak of what were they because other than the Edward VIII business which didnt really materialised into a scandal (but came close) I cannot think of any in modern times.
 
Scottish independence can only happen if scotland joins the EU which would be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire.
"reunification of northern ireland" presumably you mean the unification of NI with Ireland>
Northern Ireland has never been united with ireland (except under British rule.
Study a map of neolithic court cairns, they exist in Ulster but no where else in Ireland
In the 7th century they built a bank and ditch cutting off Ulster from the rest of Ireland (its called the "Black Pigs Dyke")
After the Norman "invasion" of Ireland much of Ulster was taken from Norman control by Edward Bruce (brother of Robert) in 1315.
One of the great Irish mythologies tells of the wars between the "men of Ulster" and the "men of Ireland" (Tain bo Cuiligne) although this story was committed to paper in the 8th or 9th century it purports to be dated in the Iron Age
So you cannot really reunite that which was never united!
 
some clarification for American readers.
Ireland is split into 4 provinces (confusingly called fifths) Ulster the northern province consists of 9 counties (counties are an English imposition and are not Irish at all but strangely even the most die hard republican and anti British accept them and support their local county teams) of the 9 counties of Ulster three were jettisoned when Northern Ireland was formed leaving NI with 6 counties.

Borders are not fixed the ancient border between Ulster and Ireland basically followed a straight line between Dundalk bay and Sligo over the centuries the border moved around considerably but that is what happens with borders especially contested ones.
 
"if Charles seizes it as an opportunity to leverage his meager station to successful utilitarian results" t #6
Not sure what you have in mind here t #6. Promote polo? As a general principles we may all agree. I'm curious if you have anything more specific in mind.
"Charles is the woke king ..." O #7
You've sent me scurrying for the dictionary. I first tried https://www.oed.com/
got squat. So AHD.
woke 1 (wōk)
v.
A past tense of wake1. See Usage Note at wake1.

woke 2
(wōk) Share:
adj. wok·er, wok·est
Slang
Aware of the injustice of the social system in which one lives: “The phenomenon of being woke is a cultural push to challenge problematic norms, systemic injustices and the overall status quo through complete awareness” (Raven Cras).

[African American Vernacular English, past participle of wake, to wake; see WAKE1.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition copyright ©2022 by HarperCollins Publishers. All rights reserved.

?
Not sure the intended meaning here. But I've long approved what little I know of Charles, former POW. But QE2 was quite a gal.
"I'll leave it up to the British people to decide, as I am just one voice among millions." O #7
Laudable, but this may not be an intrinsically low risk approach. I believed at the time Brexit was a horrendous and substantially ignorant mass blunder. Not sure.
"In the 7th century they built a bank and ditch cutting off Ulster from the rest of Ireland (its called the "Black Pigs Dyke")" mm #9
I've wondered how far (how much farther) humanity would have progressed if we could refocus the energies expended by the bottom 20% of human effort, to more akin to the remaining 80%. You also have me wondering whether from a 2022 perspective how those that built it would feel about the worthiness of the project.
"... strangely even the most die hard republican and anti British accept them and support their local county teams) of the 9 counties of Ulster three were jettisoned when Northern Ireland was formed leaving NI with 6 counties." mm #10
Not sure about the specific details, but I note, one might support that specific echelon of government, though not necessarily endorse that specific county's politics / priorities.
"Borders are not fixed the ancient border between Ulster and Ireland basically followed a straight line between Dundalk bay and Sligo over the centuries the border moved around considerably but that is what happens with borders especially contested ones." mm #10
Territory entrains borders. And territorial disputes may be surprisingly common. Deer, birds, even red & black ants have been known to defend territory.
Robert Frost said good fences make good neighbors. Agreeing on a border can save subsequent grief.
 
some clarification for American readers.
Ireland is split into 4 provinces (confusingly called fifths) Ulster the northern province consists of 9 counties (counties are an English imposition and are not Irish at all but strangely even the most die hard republican and anti British accept them and support their local county teams) of the 9 counties of Ulster three were jettisoned when Northern Ireland was formed leaving NI with 6 counties.

Borders are not fixed the ancient border between Ulster and Ireland basically followed a straight line between Dundalk bay and Sligo over the centuries the border moved around considerably but that is what happens with borders especially contested ones.
Ancient Ireland had very interesting laws and structures.

Scottish independence can only happen if scotland joins the EU which would be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire.
"reunification of northern ireland" presumably you mean the unification of NI with Ireland>
Northern Ireland has never been united with ireland (except under British rule.
Study a map of neolithic court cairns, they exist in Ulster but no where else in Ireland
In the 7th century they built a bank and ditch cutting off Ulster from the rest of Ireland (its called the "Black Pigs Dyke")
After the Norman "invasion" of Ireland much of Ulster was taken from Norman control by Edward Bruce (brother of Robert) in 1315.
One of the great Irish mythologies tells of the wars between the "men of Ulster" and the "men of Ireland" (Tain bo Cuiligne) although this story was committed to paper in the 8th or 9th century it purports to be dated in the Iron Age
So you cannot really reunite that which was never united!

We annexed Norn Iron (and the south) and both countries deserve independence from us; only one has it. If Scotland joins the EU they will be better off but I can see you aren't a fan of the EU.

like you I am not a monarchist in that if I was building a country from scratch it wouldnt be a monarchy but I recognise that we are where we are.
These "awful scandals" that you speak of what were they because other than the Edward VIII business which didnt really materialised into a scandal (but came close) I cannot think of any in modern times.
Well, Prince Andrew, Princess Diana/teatment when with Charles etc etc? The Queen's cousins. They had a lot of scandals.
 
We annexed Norn Iron (and the south) and both countries deserve independence from us; only one has it.
Should Britain cast NI adrift even if a majority of citizens there want to remain British.

If Scotland joins the EU they will be better off but I can see you aren't a fan of the EU.
im sort of neutral on the EU should Britain have joined? probably not.
Having joined should Britain have stayed? probably
But swopping membership of UK for membership of the EU isnt in any way gaining independence (except from England)

Scotland does rather well out of the current arrangement the per capita grants from the UK government to the national assemblies as as follows
Scotland, £14,842
NI £15,357.
Wales £14,222
England £13,166

which is why (in case you were wondering) England is the only part of the UK that pays prescription charges and why university education is more expensive in England than any of the other home nations. Scotland also has heavily subsidized public transport (RET etc ) and free social care for the elderly

If an independent Scotland were to join the EU it would almost certainly have to accept being not only in the Euro zone but also the Schengen area meaning a hard border between England and Scotland with immigration checks and customs checks.
 
Well, Prince Andrew, Princess Diana/teatment when with Charles etc etc?
Andrews "problems" were personal nothing to do with his official role or function and so far as I recall didnt actually involve criminality (creepy certainly but not actually criminal)
Im not sure what you mean about the serial adultress and all round flake Diana.
As for the queens cousins aside from being 100years ago they were as you accept COUSINS so actually quite remote from the core of the family.

(For Sear there were two children born to the Queens mothers brother (who was not actually "a royal") in 1919 and 1926 they suffered from severe learning difficulties and - like many such children at the time - were placed in a mental asylum Sear might like to contrast this with the treatment of the Kennedy's child Rosemary )
 
"Ancient Ireland had very interesting laws and structures." O #12
News to me. Shouldn't be I suppose. I grieve for the loss of the government and other structures lost to humanity by the European conquest of North America.
You sent me to investigate O #12. Didn't take me long to find this:

#4 Justice of the bees
Along with cattle, the Brehons devoted much attention to the bee. Over twenty manuscript pages of laws governing beekeeping, honey production, and protection of bees survive.
According to Brehon law, “any bumble bee – ‘bumbóg’ in Irish – taking nectar from plants on a neighbour’s land could be accused of grazing trespass in the same way a cow or sheep would be if they strayed on to neighboring land.”
Bees are a little harder to fence in than cattle and sheep, so the law granted a beekeeper “three years of freedom during which time his bees were allowed free reign but on the fourth year the first swarm to issue from the hive had to be given to the neighbor as payment.”
Bee stings were also covered. Victims were entitled to a meal of honey from the bee’s keeper. If, however, they died as a result of the sting, two hives were paid in compensation to their family. This ruling was null and void, however, if the victim killed the bee in retaliation.
Moreover, if the bee-stung “victim” was found to have vandalized or disturbed the hive prior to the attack, the bees were considered justified and their keeper free from liability for any resulting injuries.

I couldn't find a century disclosure. But we know they had bee keepers.

On royals scandals, I recall one a few decades ago of some young royal lads shot naked in a hotel room, probably from a cell-phone camera. I have no vote in the matter. But as long as it's among consenting adults, I find it slightly encouraging.
"If an independent Scotland were to join the EU it would almost certainly have to accept being not only in the Euro zone but also the Schengen area meaning a hard border between England and Scotland with immigration checks and customs checks." mm #13
I'm old enough to know rules can be pliable. Even if the E.U. said there has to be a gate 8 meters high, attended by two guards 24 / 7, I suspect there's ways to minimize the impact. Sure. The gate will be 8 meters high. But the two "guards" may be sleeping from 11:pM to 7:AM. Bad example of a realistic principle. Wouldn't surprise me if the border requirements were relaxed or abandoned. What are they expected to accomplish?
"(For Sear there were two children born to the Queens mothers brother (who was not actually "a royal") in 1919 and 1926 they suffered from severe learning difficulties and - like many such children at the time - were placed in a mental asylum Sear might like to contrast this with the treatment of the Kennedy's child Rosemary )" mm #14
Before I finished reading your sentence the first thought to my mind: KG3, the bloke what made Thomas Jefferson famous. The other, the Kennedy child, which I didn't know you knew until I finished the sentence. Sad tale. I gather they lobotomized her, and left her drooling in a corner for the rest of her life. I suspect death might have been more humane.
 
Should Britain cast NI adrift even if a majority of citizens there want to remain British.
No, there should be a referendum; several polls found a majority in support of unification though - the polls were by LUCID Talk.

And Sinn Fein are the main party at Stormont now are they not? And Catholics are now a demographic majority as well.

im sort of neutral on the EU should Britain have joined? probably not.

The left opposed the EU back in the 1970s, wondering what your opposition to joining the EEC is based on?

There is valid criticism to be made of the EU - George Monbiot made several that were interesting (it is a twitter thread).

Having joined should Britain have stayed? probably

That's interesting, you may have a point depending on your reason for opposing joining the EEC.

But swopping membership of UK for membership of the EU isnt in any way gaining independence (except from England)

I disagree. Member states are afforded a lot of leeway with rules as Hungary shows, right?

Scotland does rather well out of the current arrangement the per capita grants from the UK government to the national assemblies as as follows
Scotland, £14,842
NI £15,357.
Wales £14,222
England £13,166

Disagreed, have a look at these:

This came unexpectedly on 13 January 1997 when, in reply to a series of questions put by Alex Salmond (then an MP) to the Tory government of the day, Treasury minister William Waldegrave admitted that Scotland had paid a massive £27 billion more to the Exchequer than it had received since the Tories came to power in 1979, or around £5,400 for every Scot – a statistic which received barely any media coverage.

Figures explode subsidy myth Scotland gave #27bn more than was received
...Exclusive CLINCHING evidence that there has been a huge net flow of funds from Scotland to the Treasury since 1979, came in an answer from the Government in the final hours of the old Parliament last Friday, the SNP will reveal today.
Not only do the latest figures destroy the last main argument against the suggestion that Scotland paid #27bn more than was received in public spending, they suggest that the actual figure was nearer to #31bn. Mr William Waldegrave, Chief Secretary to the Treasury, has been forced to concede figures in Commons questioning in recent months, which show that if Scotland's share of North Sea revenues had been allocated since 1979, then the net flow in favour of the Treasury from north of the Border ran to #27bn -
Even C4 Factcheck:

The only figures we can find that go back far enough to shed any light on Ian Blackford’s claim are experimental stats published in 2013 which cover the 32 years from 1980/81 to 2011/12. They were marked “particularly liable to revision” – but the Scottish government has not revised them.


Back in 2013, it was possible to use these figures to back the idea that Scotland paid slightly more into the UK’s coffers than it took out. That’s if you add up the tax and spending in those years cumulatively, and if you make a number of assumptions about Scotland’s finances, all of which are subject to argument.

But the overall balance was close, according to one detailed analysis: even making concessions to nationalist arguments about Scotland’s likely historic debt, higher UK public spending on Scotland almost completely cancelled out any surplus created by “Scottish” oil.

The fact that the Scottish government has not updated or revised these figures since 2013 makes it impossible for us to stand up Mr Blackford’s claim at the moment.

The lack of directly comparable data for the most recent years is particularly important, because oil prices crashed after these experimental figures were published, weakening the fiscal position of a notional independent Scotland.

An SNP spokesman told FactCheck: “We have demonstrated to you using official government statistics that Ian Blackford’s comments are correct. The evidence shows that tax revenues per head in Scotland have been considerably higher than the UK – that has unquestionably subsidised UK public spending over the period.

“We have also demonstrated how your argument about public spending does not take into account the costs to Scotland of servicing UK debt that would not have been required had we been independent. There is nothing you have presented that suggests Ian Blackford’s comments were not true.”

And when you think upon this:

"Norway has taken a different approach, with over 50 percent of production coming through Statoil (of which the state owns a majority) and state ownership of assets via the State Direct Financial Interest (SDFI), held through Petoro (wholly owned by the state). Norway generated more than double the revenue the U.K. did from each barrel it produced."

They would have had higher N. Sea revenues.

Also see:







Don't forget the McCrone Report - covered up by Labour in the 1970s:
The document gave a favourable projection for the economy of an independent Scotland with a "chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe". It also noted that the Common Market or EEC meant that Scotland could pivot away from the rest of UK (if required) for trade. The memo from UK Civil Servants to UK Government ministers was classified “secret”;some have argued that this was to avoid fuelling independence sentiment in Scotland. The report became public in 2005 when new freedom of information legislation came into effect.[1][2]

which is why (in case you were wondering) England is the only part of the UK that pays prescription charges and why university education is more expensive in England than any of the other home nations. Scotland also has heavily subsidized public transport (RET etc ) and free social care for the elderly

Disagreed, there is no proof for that claim.

If an independent Scotland were to join the EU it would almost certainly have to accept being not only in the Euro zone but also the Schengen area meaning a hard border between England and Scotland with immigration checks and customs checks.

The inducements they'd offer wrt accession to the EU (and kicking us in the gonads, to their delight) means they'd gladly overlook most of this stuff if it got Scotland into the EU, also Scotland aren't opposed to most of those things in all probability. I'm not saying the hard border would be good because it wouldn't, or that I want to see us hurt by this, because I don't, but just pointing out the situation as is.
 
News to me. Shouldn't be I suppose. I grieve for the loss of the government and other structures lost to humanity by the European conquest of North America.
You sent me to investigate O #12. Didn't take me long to find this:

#4 Justice of the bees
Along with cattle, the Brehons devoted much attention to the bee. Over twenty manuscript pages of laws governing beekeeping, honey production, and protection of bees survive.
According to Brehon law, “any bumble bee – ‘bumbóg’ in Irish – taking nectar from plants on a neighbour’s land could be accused of grazing trespass in the same way a cow or sheep would be if they strayed on to neighboring land.”
Bees are a little harder to fence in than cattle and sheep, so the law granted a beekeeper “three years of freedom during which time his bees were allowed free reign but on the fourth year the first swarm to issue from the hive had to be given to the neighbor as payment.”
Bee stings were also covered. Victims were entitled to a meal of honey from the bee’s keeper. If, however, they died as a result of the sting, two hives were paid in compensation to their family. This ruling was null and void, however, if the victim killed the bee in retaliation.
Moreover, if the bee-stung “victim” was found to have vandalized or disturbed the hive prior to the attack, the bees were considered justified and their keeper free from liability for any resulting injuries.

I couldn't find a century disclosure. But we know they had bee keepers.

On royals scandals, I recall one a few decades ago of some young royal lads shot naked in a hotel room, probably from a cell-phone camera. I have no vote in the matter. But as long as it's among consenting adults, I find it slightly encouraging.

I'm old enough to know rules can be pliable. Even if the E.U. said there has to be a gate 8 meters high, attended by two guards 24 / 7, I suspect there's ways to minimize the impact. Sure. The gate will be 8 meters high. But the two "guards" may be sleeping from 11:pM to 7:AM. Bad example of a realistic principle. Wouldn't surprise me if the border requirements were relaxed or abandoned. What are they expected to accomplish?

Before I finished reading your sentence the first thought to my mind: KG3, the bloke what made Thomas Jefferson famous. The other, the Kennedy child, which I didn't know you knew until I finished the sentence. Sad tale. I gather they lobotomized her, and left her drooling in a corner for the rest of her life. I suspect death might have been more humane.

pancake_bunny.jpg
 
No, there should be a referendum; several polls found a majority in support of unification though - the polls were by LUCID Talk.

there was a border referenda in 1973 with a 59% turnout 98% voted for the border and the link with Britain to remain.

I disagree. Member states are afforded a lot of leeway with rules as Hungary shows, right?
It remains to be seen how much longer the EU are prepared to tolerate Hungary which is slowly but inexorably moving to being an authoritarian state

I am interested and not a little surprised by your Scottish financial figures (although those pre WWII are hardly relevant)
 
On royals scandals, I recall one a few decades ago of some young royal lads shot naked in a hotel room
hardly a scandal!
One of them turning up at a party in Nazi uniform was probably worse (even if it was his great uncle's - Edward VII - uniform)

Rosemary Kennedy's lobotomy was done for no good reason beyond her behavior was embarrassing to the family (official version "mood swings")
 
Back
Top