Anthropogenic Global Warming ... how hot is it ?

[Rigby5]

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The only way I know of that may prevent global warming from making all life on the planet go extinct, is that it may first produce a constant cloud cover from the ocean warming.
That may keep global temperatures survivable, but constant cloud cover would have its own problems as well.
Astronomy and air travel would be greatly effected, for example.

 

[Shiftless2]

The only way I know of that may prevent global warming from making all life on the planet go extinct, is that it may first produce a constant cloud cover from the ocean warming.

In the day, science fiction novels pictured Venus as an ocean planet occupied by sea monsters and who knows what else. It wasn't until relatively recently that we discovered that is not what those clouds were covering.

 

[Rigby5]

In the day, science fiction novels pictured Venus as an ocean planet occupied by sea monsters and who knows what else. It wasn't until relatively recently that we discovered that is not what those clouds were covering.

While I have not looked into the details myself, the hope clouds will reflect solar heat away enough to prevent global warming from being fatal seem slim because it did not help Venus.
Which is still over 400 degrees even with the clouds. It could be clouds make it worse, since water vapor also is a greenhouse gas?

 

[Shiftless2]

No question - all I was doing was pointing out that science fiction from the 50's and 60's presented Venus as a cloud covered ocean or jungle.

 

[Rigby5]

No question - all I was doing was pointing out that science fiction from the 50's and 60's presented Venus as a cloud covered ocean or jungle.

There are some scientists who believe as the oceans warm, there will be increased cloud cover, which will increase planetary albedo, thus reflecting more solar energy, and cooling the planet.
But it is confusing.
Since water vapor is also a greenhouse gas, it could trap more heat.
Low laying clouds also trap more heat.

But since the atmosphere of Venus is 95% CO2, I agree Venus is not much like Earth.

 

[sear]

S2 #564

R5 #565

You two have reminded me of the Gaia hypothesis, rather more a myth or legend than science-based perspective.

None the less the idea is, without necessarily delving into the supernatural, Earth self-regulates,
so when pollution threatens global catastrophe, Earth naturally responds somewhat the way R5 #565 suggests.

Clouds do both.
They reflect solar warmth during the day, AND
they insulate against radiational cooling at night.

The question is not which of the two. It's both. The question is, what is the NET affect.

I do not know.

"greenhouse gas?" R5 #563

For us:
grandkids:

 

[Rigby5]

You two have reminded me of the Gaia hypothesis, rather more a myth or legend than science-based perspective.

None the less the idea is, without necessarily delving into the supernatural, Earth self-regulates,
so when pollution threatens global catastrophe, Earth naturally responds somewhat the way R5 #565 suggests.

Clouds do both.
They reflect solar warmth during the day, AND
they insulate against radiational cooling at night.

The question is not which of the two. It's both. The question is, what is the NET affect.

I do not know.



For us:
grandkids:

It is very confusing to try to predict.
Some claim the increased CO2 is good for plants, and others claim that the greater CO2 makes the plants grow faster but have less value, like reduced nutrition.

 

[sear]

"It is very confusing to try to predict.
Some claim the increased CO2 is good for plants, and others claim that the greater CO2 makes the plants grow faster but have less value, like reduced nutrition." R5 #567

I believe many if not most climatologists with significant professional connection to the anthropogenic global warming process already know the answer.
I deduce water vapor is generally a greenhouse gas, though H2O can manifest in a variety of forms.

I don't have data handy on the vegetation / nutrition issue.
But if it's not too much of a stretch, we do have some insight into tinkering with raising other kinds of food.

 

[Rigby5]

I believe many if not most climatologists with significant professional connection to the anthropogenic global warming process already know the answer.
I deduce water vapor is generally a greenhouse gas, though H2O can manifest in a variety of forms.

I don't have data handy on the vegetation / nutrition issue.
But if it's not too much of a stretch, we do have some insight into tinkering with raising other kinds of food.

View attachment 4091 View attachment 4090

I agree the wild salmon is much better.
I wonder if we will still have the options as the population increases?

 

[Shiftless2]

How a bomb cyclone is bringing blizzard conditions to the Northeast​

Blizzards can bring a ton of snow, but here’s what else they feature
By Andrea Thompson edited by Jeanna Bryner

A winter bomb cyclone is expected to bring blizzard conditions across parts of the East Coast from Maryland up through southeastern New England from Sunday night into Monday morning. But what exactly is a blizzard?

A blizzard doesn’t always mean “a lot of snow,” though it can certainly bring heavy snowfalls, as this storm is expected to do along parts of the East Coast. Rather the National Weather Service defines a blizzard as a snowstorm with winds that are regularly at or above 35 miles per hour and “considerable falling” or blowing snow for at least three hours. This weekend’s storm could dump one to two feet of snow in the worst-hit areas, and snowfall rates could reach two to three inches per hour. Wind gusts could reach 40 to 70 mph along the coast from New Jersey through New England.

Blizzard conditions can reduce visibility to less than 0.25 mile, which makes travel especially hazardous. New York City has put a travel ban on its roads starting at 9 P.M. on Sunday night.

This storm’s winds and heavy, wet snow could also cause power outages by weighing down power lines and tree branches.

Blizzard conditions can develop along the northwest side of a very intense storm, as is the case with this system. This is because the major difference between the low pressure at the storm’s center and an area of higher pressure to the west creates very intense winds. This storm will likely become a bomb cyclone—what a storm is called when it undergoes “bombogenesis,” defined by a large decrease in pressure in 24 hours.

A bomb cyclone is bringing blizzard conditions to the Northeast. So what is a blizzard exactly?

Blizzards can bring a ton of snow, but here’s what else they feature

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[sear]

bomb cyclone Northeast AT & JB #570​

A "West wind" is from the West.
A "North wind" arrives from the North. BUT !
Native New Yorkers may be familiar with violent Winter storms called "Nor'Easters.
Storms called "Nor'Easters" arrive from the Southwest.

tor·na·do (tôr-nādō)
A whirlwind or hurricane.

cy·clone (sīklōn′)
A violent rotating windstorm, especially a tornado.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition copyright ©2022 by HarperCollins Publishers. All rights reserved.

 

[Shiftless2]

Earth’s disastrous 10th tipping point has been identified​

Story by Darren Orf


A new study uncovers aquatic deoxygenation as Earth's 10th tipping point, threatening ecosystems and humanity's future. Can we still save the planet?

• Crossing Planetary Boundaries (PB)—a concept that defines nine potential ecological “tipping points”—could spell doom for ecosystems and humanity’s future on the planet.
• Of these PBs, humans have already crossed six of the nine thresholds.
• Now, scientists are arguing that there’s potentially a tenth boundary that’s gone unrecognized, which concerns worldwide aquatic deoxygenation in lakes, reservoirs, oceans, and other bodies of water.

“Climate change” is a scary, catch-all term that summarizes all the anthropogenic degradation humans are inflicting on the planet. In reality, climate change is only one of the many threats facing the planet.

First introduced in 2009, the Planetary Boundary (PB) concept identifies nine unique thresholds that could spell disaster if humanity crosses them. While climate change is one of the nine boundaries, the list also includes things like biosphere integrity, ozone depletion, ocean acidification, freshwater change, and more. (Of course, what we think of as climate change exacerbates all of these issues, so in a sense, it remains Public Enemy No. 1.)

Now, scientists argue that a 10th boundary could be added to the list: aquatic deoxygenation. Some bodies of water in the world (such as basins in the Black Sea, the Baltic Sea, and various fjords) are naturally .....

MORE>

Humanity has already crossed six of the nine boundaries enumerated in the original PB concept, and now a tenth boundary could be quickly joining that notorious club.

 

[Shiftless2]

Hurricane Melissa upgraded to 190-mph winds, tied for strongest Atlantic hurricane​

Story by Jesse Ferrell

T
he National Hurricane Center has issued its final report on Hurricane Melissa, which devastated Jamaica in October 2025. One notable change is that the maximum sustained winds estimated by reconnaissance aircraft were increased from 185 mph to 190 mph, though the Jamaica landfall wind speed of 185 mph was unchanged.

This means that Hurricane Melissa is now tied with Hurricane Allen in 1980 for the strongest winds ever measured in an ....

MORE>

 

[Rigby5]

The confusing part of these greater winds caused by global warming is that then equatorial temperatures actually tend to be cooler.
But the poles are as much as 15 degrees warmer.

 

[Shiftless2]

Hawaii’s rains, floods cited as examples of climate change​

​

Hawaii's rains, floods cited as examples of climate change

Heavy rains are part of the winter wet season in Hawaiian Islands. But the downpours triggering flooding that destroyed homes and bridges and set off mass evacuations on multiple islands this week are also an example of the more intense rainstorms that climate scientists say are occurring more frequ

apnews.com

The ferocity of the downpour that brought the latest Hawaii flooding surprised even meteorologists​

The ferocity of the downpour that brought the latest Hawaii flooding surprised even meteorologists

HONOLULU (AP) — Crews on Tuesday began evaluating damage from a surprise downpour that sent floodwaters raging through a neighborhood near downtown Honolulu — the latest bout in a series of storms and flooding that have pummeled the state over the pa

www.townandcountrytoday.com

 

[Shiftless2]

New study finds ‘alarming’ high flood risk for 17 million Americans on Atlantic and Gulf coasts​

More than 17 million people along the U.S. Atlantic and Gulf coasts are at the highest risk of being affected by flooding, with New York and New Orleans standing out, according to one of the most comprehensive studies ever of flood risk.

Researchers at the University of Alabama used 16 different factors including the geographic hazards, the population and infrastructure exposed and the vulnerability of people living there. They then brought in past damages from the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s database and applied three different artificial intelligence tools to figure out flood risks from Texas to Maine, calculating that 17.5 million people were at “very high” risk and an additional 17 million were at “high” risk, the next level.

The authors looked at all sizes of flooding and examined separately ....

New study finds 'alarming' high flood risk for 17 million Americans on Atlantic and Gulf coasts

One of the most comprehensive studies ever of flood risk has determined that more than 17 million people in eight cities along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts are at the highest risk of being affected by flooding.

apnews.com

 

[Rigby5]

New study finds ‘alarming’ high flood risk for 17 million Americans on Atlantic and Gulf coasts​

More than 17 million people along the U.S. Atlantic and Gulf coasts are at the highest risk of being affected by flooding, with New York and New Orleans standing out, according to one of the most comprehensive studies ever of flood risk.

Researchers at the University of Alabama used 16 different factors including the geographic hazards, the population and infrastructure exposed and the vulnerability of people living there. They then brought in past damages from the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s database and applied three different artificial intelligence tools to figure out flood risks from Texas to Maine, calculating that 17.5 million people were at “very high” risk and an additional 17 million were at “high” risk, the next level.

The authors looked at all sizes of flooding and examined separately ....

New study finds 'alarming' high flood risk for 17 million Americans on Atlantic and Gulf coasts

One of the most comprehensive studies ever of flood risk has determined that more than 17 million people in eight cities along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts are at the highest risk of being affected by flooding.

apnews.com

Most people do not care because they either believe they will be dead by the time the flooding happens, or they do not live near the coast.
But it seems inevitable the ocean will rise about 200' once it gets warm enough to melt the land ice on Greenland and the Antarctic.
It seems so simple to prevent, by just burning less carbon or planting more trees?

 

[sear]

"high flood risk" ap #576​

Lucky capitol hill was built on a hill.
Lucky the white house wasn't.

"You know the green new scam? One of the greatest scams in history, remember? Cliimate change, global warming, all of this -- they actually had 'global warming,' remember? That wasn't working because we were actually cooling as a planet. Then they had another one and another one and another one, and they were wrong, and then they just said 'climate change,' because climate change takes care of heat, snow, whatever." ~ Trump https://citizenvoice.us/threads/quotable-quotes.199/page-103

"It seems so simple to prevent, by just burning less carbon or planting more trees?" R5 #577

It's nearly axiomatic, persons believe what they wish to believe.
Responding responsibly to global warming is literally a global collective action problem.
If / when our misleaders are willing to jeopardize posterity for current personal gain, or for fun, cataclysm is incubated.

It's not that R5 #577 is wrong.
It's that it's immaterial. What we CAN do is irrelevant if we won't.

 

[Rigby5]

Lucky capitol hill was built on a hill.
Lucky the white house wasn't.



It's nearly axiomatic, persons believe what they wish to believe.
Responding responsibly to global warming is literally a global collective action problem.
If / when our misleaders are willing to jeopardize posterity for current personal gain, or for fun, cataclysm is incubated.

It's not that R5 #577 is wrong.
It's that it's immaterial. What we CAN do is irrelevant if we won't.

What is strangest is how the media is manipulated based on what those with money have decided is their means of making more money.
What people are being told to do is buy EVs, when that does not actually help at all, since EVs are powered by burning fossil fueled electrical generators, and batteries weigh so much that more needs to be burned.

What is bizarre is that there are lots of possible solutions, like using hydrogen or bio-fuel, that do not add carbon to the air.
But no one is supporting those solutions for some reason?

 

[sear]

"What people are being told to do is buy EVs, when that does not actually help at all, since EVs are powered by burning fossil fueled electrical generators, and batteries weigh so much that more needs to be burned." R5 #579

Potentially, a plug-in hybrid could add more atmospheric Carbon per mile if charged from commercial electric power supplied from a coal-burning power plant.
OTO if charged from a hydro-electric source, the Carbon footprint should be smaller than that of a conventional gasoline burning internal combustion engine (I.C.E.).

"What is bizarre is that there are lots of possible solutions, like using hydrogen or bio-fuel, that do not add carbon to the air.
But no one is supporting those solutions for some reason?" R5 #579

Replacing gasoline with Hydrogen seems like a fabulous idea. The "exhaust" is H2O. BUT !
There are problems.
We're having trouble storing Hydrogen. It's a small molecule, and thus easily leaks from pressurized confinement.
Another problem, we can "manufacture", produce Hydrogen with electrolysis of water. BUT !
We only get about 70% of the energy put into that process back out again when such Hydrogen is used as fuel.
We'll need a more efficient means of collecting Hydrogen to render it a viable global automotive fuel.