Russia is a neofascist (and nazi) state

"Fascism" is a complex and somewhat heterogeneous phenomenon without clear and universally accepted definition; so we must really refer to history of fascism, and combine it with scholastic attempts to define fascism, in order to understand what it is.

By pure historical comparison, today's russia is a straight-up nazi state, by which I mean fascism combined with genocidal chauvinism. Using the "duck-typing" approach (if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck), let's check out what russia has in common with nazi Germany and Mussolini's Italy:
  • Fuhrer embodying the nation
  • Cult of tradition
  • Victimhood and obsessive quest for enemies
  • Historical resentment and irredentism
  • Wars of [re]conquest
  • Subordination of various aspects of society to the state (politics, media, religion, sports, etc).
And of course to this we must add the russian genocidal chauvinism -- their fairly open intention to destroy the very concept of "Ukrainian", to kill those who resist (back at the start of the war russians had estimated it would be ~10%) and russify the rest.

What we get is a clear practical conclusion: today's russia is a nazi state. Not even merely fascist, but outright nazi.

If we then compare it to some commonly used scholarly definitions of fascism, we will indeed observe a near-perfect match. From the link above, one widely used definition comes from Umberto Eco:
  • The cult of tradition
  • The rejection of modernism
  • The cult of action for action's sake
  • Disagreement is treason
  • Fear of difference
  • Appeal to a frustrated middle class
  • Obsession with a plot
  • Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak
  • Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy
  • Contempt for the weak
  • Everybody is educated to become a hero
  • Machismo
  • Selective populism
  • Newspeak
Another widely used definition if Rober Paxton's:

A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.​

Paxton also argues that fascism's foundations lie in a set of "mobilizing passions" rather than an elaborated doctrine.
  • a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond the reach of any traditional solutions;
  • the primacy of the group, toward which one has duties superior to every right, whether individual or universal, and the subordination of the individual to it;
  • the belief that one’s group is a victim, a sentiment that justifies any action, without legal or moral limits, against its enemies, both internal and external;
  • dread of the group’s decline under the corrosive effects of individualistic liberalism, class conflict, and alien influences;
  • the need for closer integration of a purer community, by consent if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary;
  • the need for authority by natural chiefs (always male), culminating in a national chieftain who alone is capable of incarnating the group’s historical destiny;
  • the superiority of the leader’s instincts over abstract and universal reason;
  • the beauty of violence and the efficacy of will, when they are devoted to the group’s success;
  • the right of the chosen people to dominate others without restraint from any kind of human or divine law, right being decided by the sole criterion of the group’s prowess within a Darwinian struggle.
etc.

Yup. Today's russia is a naze state.
 
I've seen reports of Russian men of conscription age fleeing to the borders to escape War in Ukraine.
I suspect in decades past Russians were too afraid of their totalitarian dictators to attempt such thing.

I don't know the full timeline. But I gather after the Cold War things livened up in Moscow considerably.
You've since explained Russia has had a severe setback under Putin, iirc you observed Russia is totalitarian now. That's terribly grim news.

Looks like Putin's generals planed to lay waste to Ukraine so there wasn't anything left for Ukranians to defend, and then plant the Russian flag there in victory.
Putin's post bridge destruction missile initiative seems to me a bull-in-the-china-shop strategy. I don't know how many missiles Putin has, or what the limit of his budget is to resupply.
But the writing is on the wall. It's most of the world against Russia / Putin. And I'm not sure China and Iran can help put Putin over the top on this one.

So my question: what of Ukranian reconstruction? And NATO membership? What other neighbors will wish to pick a side?
 
Several nations pledged to help Ukraine rebuild, and of course there will be reparations from russia.

Ukraine will probably join NATO at some point, though it might take a while. Most other regional countries are already either in NATO or on their way to NATO.
 
Not as accusation D #3, but as a comment on an uncompleted discussion, I left a rough draft of a President GHWB letter to Gorby. I don't recall any reaction / criticism from you about it.

Dear President Gorbachev:
For decades the U.S. and U.S.S.R. were locked in a mutually depleting Cold War that threatened our mutual annihilation.
That War is now over, and some might expect the victor to harvest the spoils.
But the United States of America maintains a proud tradition of welcoming our former adversaries as friends, as we have with both Germany and Japan after WWII.
Not a mere rhetorical welcome without substance or concern, but genuine, substantial peace and prosperity.

The Soviet economy was a zero sum game. For government to have more, the good people of the Soviet Union had less, and for the Kremlin to keep pace with the Pentagon, the good people of the Soviet Union were forced to have a great deal less.
As president of the United States I offer to you, to Russia and the good people that populate her, the same determined hand of friendship that it is our tradition to extend.

It will be a very long road Mr. Gorbachev, measured not in miles, but decades. Many challenges and obstacles await us in our mutual effort to welcome Russia to a far more prosperous, more comfortable, more secure future.
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." There is no benefit to delay. The sooner we begin to rebuild, to modernize, to benefit all of Russia the better.

I have appointed a liaison team to establish communications with their counterpart working group in Russia.
This combined team can begin by establishing the objectives Russia chooses to achieve, prioritized to your preference, to be executed only upon your approval.
If any time you sense a snag in their progress, or if you simply wish to touch base to solidify mutually beneficial diplomatic relations, please feel free to contact me directly.

Both our nations have paid a price. But the wisdom of your world-class leadership is surely equal to this task that lays before us. Our liaison team has communication keys to share with yours, for their consultation with Germany, Japan, and other Western nations eager to offer constructive suggestions on how to optimize Russia's post War transition.

All best to you and and Raisa.

Your partner in Russia's prosperity, with kindest regards
United States President George Herbert Walker Bush
202-456-1111



Particularly if Russians spit-can Putin (unlikely in my opinion) and even if not, do you suppose an updated version of this GHWB might help end this Russian estrangement from civilization once and for all?
Either that or what?
 
GHWBush never understood russia. Most "russia specialists" in the west never understood russia either -- they viewed russian culture as essentially western, just saddled with a different governance system. They know facts about the culture but they don't understand the cultural mindset.

Most of them bought the russian narrative and russian interpretive framework for the entire region (to the point where e.g. a british discussion panel about ukraine was all russian). Nothing could be further from the truth.

Those same people are the ones who thought Ukraine would fall in 3 days.

Those same people are the ones who thought that putin can be negotiated with.

Those same people are the ones who thought that russian gas was just gas.

(those are the same people who thought iraqis would welcome us with flowers)

etc.

GHWBush's naive optimism about russia would be adorable if russia's muderous imperialism weren't so deadly.

Merkel understood russia far better than GHWBush, but she still didn't understand russia. If you wanna see who understands russia, look to those who lived under russian rule and who rebelled against it -- Ukraine, Baltic states, and Poland. THEY (and yes, people like me) understand russia.
 
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D #5
- dandy -
None of that demonstrates why it would have been impossible for GHWB to have sent a vastly improved final draft of the approximation in #4.
The West had a brief opportunity. Extend that generosity in as non-threatening a way as humanly possible, making it EXPLICITLY clear NONE of it would happen without Russia's full, enthusiastic, eager, willing cooperation and approval.

I say he could have sent the letter.
You say no.
Why not?
 
I didn't say the letter couldn't have been sent, I am saying that it wouldn't have helped.

Why was something like this not sent? Perhaps someone in Bush's inner circle helped him see the nature of the problem. Perhaps Bush came to understand that USSR couldn't be saved, only broken up.

Russia also cannot be saved (in its current state), only broken up. (the alternative -- radical cultural reconstruction -- requires an occupation, which is not in the cards).
 
I didn't say the letter couldn't have been sent, I am saying that it wouldn't have helped.
I don't recall having predicted it would have helped. IIRC my observation was it was a once in history opportunity, and worth the $price of the postage.
My further point was, IF it had worked near as well as the Marshall Plan did, Ukraine would likely be intact today, that it might very well have strangled this post-Cold War expansionist monster in the crib.

AND
In the re-write (the version actually sent Gorby), it could have been sent expressing a request for Russia's help, an appeal to the Great Russian Bear's human compassion, to mask any potentially prohibitive appearance to the community of nations that the West had Russia over a barrel, and was offering charity.
I don't know how the Marshall Plan was "sold". But I'd count it a success. And I still haven't gotten a single reason from you about it couldn't have worked with Russia too. I've read your platitudes. Even if all true, mostly immaterial.
When was the most recent time Portugal invaded Ukraine?
 
I don't recall having predicted it would have helped. IIRC my observation was it was a once in history opportunity, and worth the $price of the postage.
My further point was, IF it had worked near as well as the Marshall Plan did, Ukraine would likely be intact today, that it might very well have strangled this post-Cold War expansionist monster in the crib.
Adorable naivete.
 
Alexander Dugin (Putin's spiritual advisor) once said "Hitler didn't go far enough" so I would argue whatever Russia is is probably worse than Fascist.
 
Assuming you are correct and Russia is a "neofascist (and nazi) state" so what? (not sure how the latter term augments or moderates the former but never mind)
Saying or even proving that Russia is the same as Ukraine neither makes Russia look worse nor Ukraine look better.

Does Russia suppress journalism which is opposed to teh official line?
Absolutely! but so does Ukraine (Dmitri Djangirov, Ukrainian journalist arrested, Gonzalo Lira, Chilean journalist working in Ukraine "disappeared")

Does Russia supress political opposition?
Absolutely but so does Ukraine (Vlodymyr Struk, pro-Russian mayor kidnapped and murdered, Nestor Shufrych, Ukrainian member of parliament arrested, 11 political parties "closed down")



 
Alexander Dugin (Putin's spiritual advisor)
"Spiritual"? Count me a skeptic. But even if so, what has:
"Hitler didn't go far enough"
to do with spirituality?
Does Russia supress political opposition?
Absolutely but so does Ukraine
Ukraine lives in a rough neighborhood.

Lookit how casual the U.S. has been with President Trump's attempted armed insurrection.

It's formal law in the U.S. that advocating violent overthrow of the United States government is illegal.
You know some of these ostensible Ukrainian domestic agitators have links to Moscow. Right?

So you conflate Ukraine's legitimate attending to political agitation within their own sovereign border with Russia's military invasion & occupation? Atrocious war crimes and all?

I surely appreciate your avoidance of double-standard. Looks to me like you're weigh over-doing it here. - weigh -
 
Ukraine lives in a rough neighborhood

so that entitles you to arrest and or murder political enemies and critics?

If you cast your mind back to pre WWII before the Nazis rounded up the Jews they rounded up the socialists and trade unionists

Some 1,000 Ukrainian rightists, led by the notorious Right Sector, surrounded, stormed, and burned the House of Trade Unions in Odessa last Friday, killing 39 pro-Russia demonstrators in the building.

Now, Victor will quite rightly point out that this was before Zelensky became president BUT
1665952302005.png
above is a picture of PRESIDENT Zellensky bestowing one of his countries highest awards to the man who lead the Right Sector at the time
 
That's dismissal by insinuation of superiority. You have yet to make a valid point against it, and simply abandoned the thread in which I originally posted the GHWB example.
and yet, the borg who is complaining about you " insulting" his girlfriend by proving her wrong, liked vic's post. interesting. not surprising, but interesting.
personally, i think that everything that could have been done, but wasn't , to bring in all of the countries surrounding russia to NATO membership, SHOULD have happened. but it didn't, and that is why all of this is happening. the strong stand we took against japan and germany after WWII allowed them to maintain their independence, but still prevented further warfare. i don't think we could have completely pulled THAT off with russia, but " preventative maintenance" by bringing the surrounding countries to NATO could have stopped this.
 
part I
b2 #16
I'd love to get you a better avatar. Not that I'm not wild about chartreuse mind you. But it looks too much like B #14's. Need help? Lemme know.
 
part I
b2 #16
I'd love to get you a better avatar. Not that I'm not wild about chartreuse mind you. But it looks too much like B #14's. Need help? Lemme know.
go for it! i'd love to have an avi, but i haven't learned how to C&P without a mouse, and i don't have one on this lappy, i have a touchpad.
 
part II
personally, i think that everything that could have been done, but wasn't , to bring in all of the countries surrounding russia to NATO membership, SHOULD have happened. but it didn't, and that is why all of this is happening. the strong stand we took against japan and germany after WWII allowed them to maintain their independence, but still prevented further warfare. i don't think we could have completely pulled THAT off with russia, but " preventative maintenance" by bringing the surrounding countries to NATO could have stopped this.
[oversimplification]
There are two approaches to standing down the risk of aggression from someone / something.
One is to inform them that you are no threat, and that they can put down the gun.
The other is to continue to hold the gun on them for perpetuity, KNOWING that even a brief moment's lapse could spell your own doom.

OBVIOUSLY surrounding Russia with NATO members might have seemed to prevent Russian adventurism.
But it would have left Russia at odds, odd man out, disenfranchised from the world, a permanent if not eternal 2nd class member of the community of nations, with no realistic prayer of ever acquiring for its people a standard of living comparable to that of the West.

ABSOLUTELY it's one approach. BUT !!
As a former Cold Warrior, as a component of NATO's complement in time of that Cold War, I believe if we'd done that with Germany and Japan we'd still be at virtual Cold War with each of them. I think that's TOTALLY a horrid idea!
I think it worked out MUCH better welcoming them as friends, allies, peers, and equal share partners in the global prosperity we've managed to develop since the pair of giant mushrooms faded from Japan's sky.

You think a double-standard is better? Why?
[/oversimplification]
 
If your touchpad has two mouse-like buttons, you should be able to dragon-drop in much the same was as mouse.
BUT, a USB (not PS2) mouse only costs a few $$. Newegg 'll plop one at your house for free. Find one a color you like, optical (not sure they make the rolling ball kind anymore).
All you need is any spare USB port. AND (believe it or not, and I was ASTOUNDED when I learned this) you can get a "hub" for a few $$ that can turn one USB port into many.

MOUSE: https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=usb+optical+mouse&Order=1
HUB : https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=usb+hub&Order=1
 
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