The war in Iran (or whose war is it anyways?)

Shiftless2 said:
"What, other than chaos, did Trump achieve?!" J.I. #140
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Trump killed a dozen U.S. military.
He squandered expensive munitions.
And Trump may have helped consolidate Iranian political cohesion, and render the survivors of Trump's failure even more radical.

Some experts have suggested, Iran doesn't need nukes, because Iran retains a choke-hold on the Hormuz Strait.

🤕
 
"You should buy stock in a business that's so good that even an idiot can run it, because sooner or later one will." Warren Buffett, CEO Berkshire Hathaway
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Alright,
So when I chose to be born in the U.S. during the Eisenhower administration, what precisely is it I should have done to indemnify against President Trump?

note: MTG has publicly advocated removing President Trump via the Constitutional process defined in the 25th Amendment.
 
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Good morning! Karoline Leavitt opened by spiking the football over Trump’s “historically swift and successful military triumph,” only to get sideswiped by real-time developments she plainly was not ready for. When reporters asked who was bombing Iran and whether the ceasefire was already fraying, the swagger vanished fast: “I’m standing out here with all of you,” she said, adding, “I haven’t seen these reports. I’m not verifying them.” For someone who is usually so smug, so dismissive, and so comfortable lying through her teeth, it was deeply satisfying to watch Karoline Leavitt squirm after delivering a chest-thumping victory lap and then discovering, in real time, that the press corps is more up to date than you are.

Live coverage out of the region made the administration’s “victory” narrative look even more ridiculous. Israel kept pounding Lebanon. Iranian officials kept calling that a blatant violation of the deal. Basic questions about what the agreement even covered were still being fought over in public. Oil began climbing again, markets grew skittish, shipping through Hormuz remained unstable, and America’s allies were being leaned on to clean up a mess the White House had already tried to package as a masterstroke. So once again, Trump announced peace the way he announces everything else: loudly, prematurely, and with absolutely no regard for whether reality planned to cooperate.

Professor Robert Pape offered one of the bluntest verdicts yet on Trump’s Iran fiasco, arguing that this was not a show of strength but “the worst strategic defeat since the Vietnam War,” and warning that it may become “a bigger defeat than the Vietnam War.” He went even further, saying this was not really a ceasefire at all but “a shift in global power.” In Pape’s telling, this was not some brilliant display of deterrence but a strategic humiliation dressed up in macho posturing. Kakistocracy in action. The same people who cannot run a government without setting it sideways somehow always ....

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What is so dumb about Trump attacking Iran is that Obama had already ended Iran's nuclear program.
So there was nothing at all to gain by killing people.
 
Rigby5 said:
"What is so dumb about Trump attacking Iran is that Obama had already ended Iran's nuclear program.
So there was nothing at all to gain by killing people." R5 #145
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Obama served as President for benefit of the People.
Trump lied his way to the presidency out of personal greed.

Trump's capabilities are about inversely proportional to his fantasies:
"You're going to have such great healthcare at a tiny fraction of the cost." candidate Trump 16/10/25 from campaign podium
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Candidate Trump made this campaign commitment with exceedingly little understanding of the dynamics of healthcare at national policy level.
"It'll be repeal and replace. It will be essentially simultaneously. It will be various segments you understand but it will most likely be on the same day or the same week but probably the same day. Could be the same hour." President Elect Trump 17/01/11 @NYC News Conference: source - FNS 17/07/02
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After months more of groundless, empty, ignorant promises Trump could no longer deny he would be unable to fulfill his campaign promise:
“Nobody knew that healthcare could be so complicated.” President Trump
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Obama knew.

Same deal with Obama's agreement with Iran. Trump didn't like anyone demonstrating themselves a better negotiator than Trump.
So first Trump unilaterally withdrew the U.S. from the 7 nation agreement, pretending Trump could do better. And after Trump could no longer deny to himself
he could not, Trump instead waged War on Iran, twice.

Trump is superlatively incompetent. There are girl scouts that could preside more wisely.
 
Donald Trump didn’t plan for a ticking time bomb at the Strait of Hormuz because he was convinced that his war with Iran would be over in a matter of days, or even hours, the Daily Beast has learned.

The president was warned by his Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, and other advisors that Tehran would almost certainly plug the Strait if the U.S. attacked them.
He was also told America’s Middle East allies might come under fire.

But intelligence sources with knowledge of the war planning said the president ultimately dismissed the concerns because he believed Iranians opposed to the repressive fundamentalist regime would take to the streets and overcome the ayatollah’s henchmen once the bombing began.
It was never supposed to go on this long. A few hours. A few days. A week at most. Then the Iranian people would do the rest.

But the revolution never happened.
The CIA even launched a covert mission to arm one of the biggest groups of Iranian dissidents in the weeks before Operation Epic Fury was launched. The guns didn’t make it to their destination, Trump later disclosed.
www.yahoo.com

Staggering Reason Trump Made Such a Mess of His War Exposed

Donald Trump didn’t plan for a ticking time bomb at the Strait of Hormuz because he was convinced that his war with Iran would be over in a matter of days, or even hours, the Daily Beast has learned. ...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

They warned you and you ignored them. - dope -

Heads up Mr. President:
Your article #25 expulsion may be nearer than you think.
 
The trolling continues
😂


🇺🇸
The White House
"There are reports that Iran is charging fees to tankers going through the Hormuz Strait — They better not be and, if they are, they better stop now!" - President DONALD J. TRUMP

🇮🇷
Embassy of Iran in Bulgaria
"Begging is adorable, but the key is still in our pocket."

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Wasn't that part of the deal??
 
sear said:
Donald Trump didn’t plan for a ticking time bomb at the Strait of Hormuz because he was convinced that his war with Iran would be over in a matter of days, or even hours, the Daily Beast has learned.

The president was warned by his Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, and other advisors that Tehran would almost certainly plug the Strait if the U.S. attacked them.
He was also told America’s Middle East allies might come under fire.

But intelligence sources with knowledge of the war planning said the president ultimately dismissed the concerns because he believed Iranians opposed to the repressive fundamentalist regime would take to the streets and overcome the ayatollah’s henchmen once the bombing began.
It was never supposed to go on this long. A few hours. A few days. A week at most. Then the Iranian people would do the rest.

But the revolution never happened.
The CIA even launched a covert mission to arm one of the biggest groups of Iranian dissidents in the weeks before Operation Epic Fury was launched. The guns didn’t make it to their destination, Trump later disclosed.
www.yahoo.com

Staggering Reason Trump Made Such a Mess of His War Exposed

Donald Trump didn’t plan for a ticking time bomb at the Strait of Hormuz because he was convinced that his war with Iran would be over in a matter of days, or even hours, the Daily Beast has learned. ...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

They warned you and you ignored them. - dope -

Heads up Mr. President:
Your article #25 expulsion may be nearer than you think.
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Considering how badly the Iranians hated the Shah's dictatorship, there is never any chance of the US fomenting a rebellion in Iran.
While populations in big cities likely would prefer a more liberal government, the rural majority probably likes the conservative way things are now.
 
Shiftless2 said:
The trolling continues
😂


🇺🇸
The White House
"There are reports that Iran is charging fees to tankers going through the Hormuz Strait — They better not be and, if they are, they better stop now!" - President DONALD J. TRUMP

🇮🇷
Embassy of Iran in Bulgaria
"Begging is adorable, but the key is still in our pocket."

View attachment 4620


Wasn't that part of the deal??
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Considering how the economic sanctions Trump put on Iran are illegal war crimes, I tend to side with Iran on them charging for use of their territorial waters?
 
Considering that all straits, like the Dardanelles always have charged tolls, I do not see why Iran should not?
The only difference is Iran only owns one bank of the Straits of Hormuz.
 
Tehran rebuffs American red lines as Vance leaves Islamabad empty-handed

Vance says US-Iran talks end without deal after 21 hours of negotiations​

The vice president said Iran refused to commit to not developing a nuclear weapon during talks in Islamabad​

By Michael Sinkewicz Fox News / Published April 11, 2026 10:43pm EDT

Vice President JD Vance said Sunday that high-stakes talks between the U.S. and Iran ended without a deal after Iranian officials refused to accept American terms.
Speaking during a press conference from the Serena Hotel in Islamabad, Pakistan, Vance said Iran has "chosen not to accept our terms."
"The bad news is that we have not reached an agreement," Vance said. "And I think that's bad news for Iran much more than it's bad news for the United States of America."
www.foxnews.com

Vance says US-Iran talks end without deal after 21 hours of negotiations

Vice President JD Vance says U.S.-Iran talks ended without a deal after Iran refused American terms, calling the outcome bad news for Iran more than the United States.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

VP JD,
You and Trump should stop trying to bluff Iran. Has it ever worked for you?
The above headline includes: "The vice president said Iran refused to commit to not developing a nuclear weapon during talks in Islamabad".
But Mr. Vice President, the Obama administration which the Trump administration continues to belittle negotiated a 7 nation agreement with Iran about that.
Trump disparaged that agreement indicating Trump could do better, unilaterally withdrew the U.S. from that agreement, and now Trump / Vance state as their objective
something the Democrats accomplished 2 administrations ago.

Your position is unenviable JD. Some reports indicate you argued against Trump risking this quagmire.
Now you leave Iran in failure as Iran retains choke-hold on our global economy, with President Trump to blame. You have executed an "interesting" mid-term election strategy sir.


Buttigieg responded CNBC host Joe Kernen on the Iran war and President Donald Trump’s broken inflation promises.:
“There’s no obvious way out now. But I want to make sure that this ends in a way that, first of all, our economy can recover, that we’re not paying so much for gas."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/pete-buttigieg-absolutely-shreds-cnbc-223206815.html
 
Attacking Iran over their nuclear programs is insane because all it does is prove to everyone how much they all need a nuclear deterrent.
 
Rigby5 said:
"Attacking Iran over their nuclear programs is insane because all it does is prove to everyone how much they all need a nuclear deterrent." R5 #155
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Yes indeed ! Trump's message to Iran is precisely opposite the non-proliferation message.

Trump's malicious message, comply or we'll bomb Iran "back to the stone ages where they belong." televised Trump on Iran War 26/04/01

This not only sends the wrong message to Iran, also to the rest of the world. Consider the examples U.S. foreign policy set with Libya & North Korea.

Qaddafi surrendered the matériel the U.S. was anxious about, and Qaddafi subsequently not only lost his command, but his life. Qaddafi was punished for compliance.

North Korea now has nukes, and is being richly rewarded for non-compliance. It's precisely as you indicate.


During the Obama administration Secretary Kerry assembled a group of military nuclear powers: "Britain, France, Germany, China, Russia, U.S."; in part to reduce Iran's apprehensions of U.S. dealing Iran wrong, AGAIN!!

The reports I'd read of it indicated Obama's nuclear agreement with Iran was functioning correctly. BUT !
President Trump continues to pretend he is the master of "The Art of the Deal". He isn't. Trump unilaterally withdrew the U.S. from Obama's successful international agreement, pretending Trump could negotiate a better one.
Trump having failed to do so has since gone to War against Iran twice. That's how we got into Trump's current quagmire. If Trump's global crisis were not so dire, Trump's incompetence would have rendered himself and the U.S. global laughing stock.

definition:
complementary schizmo-genesis: Fomenting a more extreme form of the behavior, instead of achieving intended reduction
 
S2 #157
I don't disagree. I believe that's not the whole story.

Shiftless2 said:
And if you wonder why "The real reason why the peace talks failed" #157
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Seems to me Trump grossly misunderestimated Iran & her leadership.
At superficial glance one might imagine Trump / Vance / Rubio / Hegseth got played.

Call it whatever you like, doesn't seem any more complicated to me than Trump challenged, tried to bully Iran, and lost, got beat.

Donald, you're a twit. You have confirmed to the world that even a global ultra-power like the U.S. can go up against a second-stringer like Iran, and lose, if the ultra-power leadership is inept enough.
It is.
And Mr. President you have punctuated this painful lesson by skyrocketing the global price of oil, rendering it a message that will not soon be forgotten.

That's not good. But Trump has made it worse by disparaging NATO and demonstrating the U.S. not a reliable partner, not merely threatening to withdraw U.S. membership,
but even threatening military conquest of other NATO member nations.

QUESTION:
What human currently living on Earth is a greater danger to the stability of peaceful progress & commerce than President Trump?
 
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