mark mywords
Active member
NCR (no carbon required) paper looks like ordinary paper but copies the imprint of what was written on the page above
$$ Taxes $$ What's right?
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NCR (no carbon required) paper looks like ordinary paper but copies the imprint of what was written on the page above
mark mywords
Active member
I think so, it has been around for a very long time I remember playing with it during the 1960s
Did I post this already here?
In 1992 Libertarian candidate for U.S. President Andre Marrou included in his campaign stump speech:
The federal government spends 25% of the Gross National Product. State, county, and
local government spend another 22%. That's 47% of the Gross National Product of this
country being spent by the government bureaucrats primarily on themselves. That
leaves 53% in your pockets. You're the people who earn it. 47% vs 53%; how can we
get your 53% up to 90%? One and only one way, we must reduce the 47% the
government spends, down to 10%. That is the only way it can be done. Individual
Liberty is diametrically opposed to governmental power.
Is there a sensible ratio? 2:1 people : government ?
In 1992 Libertarian candidate for U.S. President Andre Marrou included in his campaign stump speech:
The federal government spends 25% of the Gross National Product. State, county, and
local government spend another 22%. That's 47% of the Gross National Product of this
country being spent by the government bureaucrats primarily on themselves. That
leaves 53% in your pockets. You're the people who earn it. 47% vs 53%; how can we
get your 53% up to 90%? One and only one way, we must reduce the 47% the
government spends, down to 10%. That is the only way it can be done. Individual
Liberty is diametrically opposed to governmental power.
Is there a sensible ratio? 2:1 people : government ?
mark mywords
Active member
Is there a sensible ratio? 2:1 people : government ?
Rather depends on what the government do with the money doesnt it?
If it spends the money on universal health care and the general good of society (roads bridges drainage flood prevention etc etc) that is one thing but if it spends it on vanity projects and amassing the largest military might on the planet** that is another thing
** America's military budget is greater than that of -
China
India
UK
Russia
France
Germany
Saudi Arabia
Japan
South Korea
COMBINED!
Rather depends on what the government do with the money doesnt it?
If it spends the money on universal health care and the general good of society (roads bridges drainage flood prevention etc etc) that is one thing but if it spends it on vanity projects and amassing the largest military might on the planet** that is another thing
** America's military budget is greater than that of -
China
India
UK
Russia
France
Germany
Saudi Arabia
Japan
South Korea
COMBINED!
m #45
Totally !
As an ideological concept I'd tend to favor tending to maximize the citizen's share when slicing the pie. BUT !! I understand that if the vast majority of the population will be needing healthcare at some point in their lives, that government shielding citizens from opportunistic healthcare shysters is a utilitarian good.
The simple and sensible quantification is per capita healthcare costs, adjusted for care imparted, and healthcare outcomes. I wouldn't support doubling the per capita cost of healthcare for a 1% improvement in longevity. But I'd consider doubling per capita healthcare costs worth considering if would double life expectancy.
North Korea and the Soviets spent larger portions of their GDP on military, but at the expense of standard of living of their citizens.
** America's military budget is greater than that of -
China
India
UK
Russia
France
Germany
Saudi Arabia
Japan
South Korea
But to the degradation of the standard of living in "America"?
The U.S. military is substantially for national defense, not global conquest.
"Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return." U.S. Secretary Colin Powell
Totally !
As an ideological concept I'd tend to favor tending to maximize the citizen's share when slicing the pie. BUT !! I understand that if the vast majority of the population will be needing healthcare at some point in their lives, that government shielding citizens from opportunistic healthcare shysters is a utilitarian good.
The simple and sensible quantification is per capita healthcare costs, adjusted for care imparted, and healthcare outcomes. I wouldn't support doubling the per capita cost of healthcare for a 1% improvement in longevity. But I'd consider doubling per capita healthcare costs worth considering if would double life expectancy.
That's a major part of the story. BUT !! Might deserve an asterisk or two more than you've included. For example:
North Korea and the Soviets spent larger portions of their GDP on military, but at the expense of standard of living of their citizens.
** America's military budget is greater than that of -
China
India
UK
Russia
France
Germany
Saudi Arabia
Japan
South Korea
But to the degradation of the standard of living in "America"?
I also distinguish purpose. The Soviets used their military for expansionist purpose. North Korea uses its military to threaten its neighbors, and preserve its totalitarian oppression of its own people.
The U.S. military is substantially for national defense, not global conquest.
"Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return." U.S. Secretary Colin Powell
mark mywords
Active member
That would be nice but who repairs the roads and bridges who pays for all the stuff needed by people who dont have their own slice of the pie
Such issues are constructively viewed within their own spectra.
I reflexively exclude the absurd. My premise is that the roads are paved, and the children educated.
A utilitarian view I apply (if not to express my first preference, at least for analysis: which provides the higher standard of living? If the pie slice goes more to government, which then pays for what's needed? Or to the citizen, that then pays?
Part II pending:
I reflexively exclude the absurd. My premise is that the roads are paved, and the children educated.
A utilitarian view I apply (if not to express my first preference, at least for analysis: which provides the higher standard of living? If the pie slice goes more to government, which then pays for what's needed? Or to the citizen, that then pays?
Part II pending:
Part II
A utilitarian view I apply (if not to express my first preference, at least for analysis):
which provides the higher standard of living? If the pie slice goes more to government, which then pays for what's needed, thereby providing a better standard of living? On what basis would I object?
Or when the citizen keeps more, that then chooses ... ?
"Government can't give anything it hasn't first taken."
On the margins there are trade-offs. Lower taxes give citizens more choice.
Higher taxes may help collective bargaining obtain lower per capita cost on such things as healthcare.
I'm too old to care much.
A utilitarian view I apply (if not to express my first preference, at least for analysis):
which provides the higher standard of living? If the pie slice goes more to government, which then pays for what's needed, thereby providing a better standard of living? On what basis would I object?
Or when the citizen keeps more, that then chooses ... ?
"Government can't give anything it hasn't first taken."
On the margins there are trade-offs. Lower taxes give citizens more choice.
Higher taxes may help collective bargaining obtain lower per capita cost on such things as healthcare.
I'm too old to care much.
mark mywords
Active member
in my youth I used to laugh that Mongolia - a sparsely populated country with only two land borders, China and Russia - maintained an army, now I realise that Russia couldnt invade a well run scout camp
Yes and ...
I suspect sometime such fodder are there for publicity: - lookit ! The invaders killed all our troops! -
Why else would Poland have sent out their cavalrymen, on actual horseback, to deal with Hitler's blitzkrieg?
I do like the collective defense model.
NATO may be far from perfect.
But in present day 2022 layout, seems to me it dials back the risk of Russian-style upstarts.
I also wonder how Russia will write this Ukraine War history.
- Not at all?
- Our heroic Russian troops were out-maneuvered by those dastardly wily Ukrainians with the temerity to defend their own homeland?
- A Western swindle?
I suspect sometime such fodder are there for publicity: - lookit ! The invaders killed all our troops! -
Why else would Poland have sent out their cavalrymen, on actual horseback, to deal with Hitler's blitzkrieg?
I do like the collective defense model.
NATO may be far from perfect.
But in present day 2022 layout, seems to me it dials back the risk of Russian-style upstarts.
I also wonder how Russia will write this Ukraine War history.
- Not at all?
- Our heroic Russian troops were out-maneuvered by those dastardly wily Ukrainians with the temerity to defend their own homeland?
- A Western swindle?
she actually knew how to make it? that's COOL!
really? i'd like that!
okay, i can see where you're coming from, but i have days when i get tired of us being the world's savior/police, you know? i've lost too many that i loved...
Very funny. * (& are you trying to make me blush?)
b2, you get me started on bar jokes, you'll wish you hadn't. My jokes are deplorable. My bar jokes, the worst.
I grieve for the Ukranians.
* I stumbled into O'Donnohue's bar about a half century ago, ordered a Singapore Sling. Without looking up the bartender declared: "You're a pain in the NECK!"
lol, there really IS a drink called a double entendre! it was popular in the late 70's, early 80's , when i was first learning to bartend. GIGANTIC pain to make, needed special ingredients, a certain assembly technique and smelled BAD!
a) Very interesting, BUT !!
b) that ruins my silly joke !! (honest, I didn't know there was such a thing.) When I told that one at the garage where I got my car inspected, we didn't have these "technical" problems.
The local MD had the town's bartender prepare a daiquiri at 5
M each Friday.But the doctor specified an unusual recipe.
Lime, rum, and the important extra ingredient, a pecan sunk to the bottom for a unique zest.
One day the bar tender discovered he was out of pecans, and had no walnuts, peanuts, or beer nuts either. In a scramble, the bartender substituted a hickory nut, as the 5
M deadline arrived.The discerning doctor tasted the difference immediately, and challenged, "What the heck is this!?" The bartender replied, "That's a hickory daiquiri doc."
Told ya.
now that's something i'd forgotten about you, the bad jokes, lol! me, i can't tell a joke to save my life, but i love them!a) Very interesting, BUT !!
b) that ruins my silly joke !! (honest, I didn't know there was such a thing.) When I told that one at the garage where I got my car inspected, we didn't have these "technical" problems.
The local MD had the town's bartender prepare a daiquiri at 5
But the doctor specified an unusual recipe.
Lime, rum, and the important extra ingredient, a pecan sunk to the bottom for a unique zest.
One day the bar tender discovered he was out of pecans, and had no walnuts, peanuts, or beer nuts either. In a scramble, the bartender substituted a hickory nut, as the 5
The discerning doctor tasted the difference immediately, and challenged, "What the heck is this!?" The bartender replied, "That's a hickory daiquiri doc."
Told ya.
The ones told me don't all measure up to the ones I experienced.
I was on military leave, fast running out of time. I had to get back to Dublin or I'd miss my train.
That was long before GPS. I found a pub, rushed inside, and asked the barkeep what's the quickest way to Dublin.
He asked if I was walking or driving.
Driving! I told him.
Oh well, that's the quickest way then, he said.
I don't care much for wise guys so I grabbed a pitcher full of cold beer and poured the whole thing down the front of his trousers.
Before I could get out the door he left me a very generous tip.
I was on military leave, fast running out of time. I had to get back to Dublin or I'd miss my train.
That was long before GPS. I found a pub, rushed inside, and asked the barkeep what's the quickest way to Dublin.
He asked if I was walking or driving.
Driving! I told him.
Oh well, that's the quickest way then, he said.
I don't care much for wise guys so I grabbed a pitcher full of cold beer and poured the whole thing down the front of his trousers.
Before I could get out the door he left me a very generous tip.
There are enough other examples of taxation levels to serve as comparison, not to mirror exactly, but to verify U.S. taxation is not at fringe level.
Switzerland's roads and bridges are in excellent repair ... etc. The benefit of the U.S. may be a lower priority than the partisan rivalries in Washington.
Switzerland's roads and bridges are in excellent repair ... etc. The benefit of the U.S. may be a lower priority than the partisan rivalries in Washington.