Russia Targets An Empty German Consulate in Kiev - Latest Reports (Edit)
- Thread starter Borg Refinery
- Start date
Borg Refinery
Active member
Ah, it turns out that it's a consulate - but it's been empty for months.
That serves me right for getitng my news from republicworld.in ...
That serves me right for getitng my news from republicworld.in ...
Borg Refinery
Active member
Anyway, the strikes on civilian areas are intensifying and they're committing more and more indiscriminate bombings and mass atrocities.
Not sure how anyone could defend the fake referendum at this point, let alone any other facet of what Putin is doing.
Not sure how anyone could defend the fake referendum at this point, let alone any other facet of what Putin is doing.
I call it a Putin tantrum.
Seems about as childish (mentally non-disciplined) as a 5 year old child that wants his ice cream before his fish & chips.
Easy to make jokes. But his particular impetuous child is killing people !!
I share the grief of the Ukrainian bereaved.
Ditto on Putin's "referendum". Who's he kiddin'? A "referendum" at gunpoint?!
Putin deserves 30 days in the electric chair !
Seems about as childish (mentally non-disciplined) as a 5 year old child that wants his ice cream before his fish & chips.
Easy to make jokes. But his particular impetuous child is killing people !!
I share the grief of the Ukrainian bereaved.
Ditto on Putin's "referendum". Who's he kiddin'? A "referendum" at gunpoint?!
Putin deserves 30 days in the electric chair !
mark mywords
Active member
Targeted or hit? When America bombed the French Embassy in Tripoli was that "targeted"
its a war things get broken people get killed
what is your evidence that people were forced at gun point to vote this way or that?
(I have neither seen or heard any such evidence - lots of accustions and allegations but nothing to support them)
its a war things get broken people get killed
what is your evidence that people were forced at gun point to vote this way or that?
(I have neither seen or heard any such evidence - lots of accustions and allegations but nothing to support them)
Borg Refinery
Active member
The past atrocities by the USA and other countries do not justify the current atrocities.
The USA has not engaged in a genocide for 100+ years, so it is moot to compare the two situations.
They have good enough intel re locations of key buildings in Kiev and must have known, at the very least, that they were targeting areas near the Romanian embassy and German consulate, the fact that US ambassadorial staff talked about how they were okay is alarming enough, as it was near them too, again the Russians very likely had intel about this - they know the layout of the capital.
I don't for one second believe this wasn't deliberate, how could you think they didn't know?
The USA has not engaged in a genocide for 100+ years, so it is moot to compare the two situations.
They have good enough intel re locations of key buildings in Kiev and must have known, at the very least, that they were targeting areas near the Romanian embassy and German consulate, the fact that US ambassadorial staff talked about how they were okay is alarming enough, as it was near them too, again the Russians very likely had intel about this - they know the layout of the capital.
I don't for one second believe this wasn't deliberate, how could you think they didn't know?
Victor Danilchenko
Member
It's the other way around. With vote, you need affirmative proof -- through transparent procedure and independent monitoring and anonymous vote -- that the voting is fair; otherwise it's not.
When soldiers of the occupying power show up at your home with guns and ask you to vote, guess what the result will be?
When voting is not anonymous, guess what the result will be?
When the "poll workers" were seen depositing blank vote forms (nobody really cares, they will draw up whatever result they want anyway!), guess what the result will be?
It's either transparent, independently monitored, anonymous voting -- or it's bullshit.
And then of course there are numerous reports from location about coercion, "no" voters being taken away (russians kill anyone who is pro-Ukrainian), etc. Dude, they kill people for ukrainian tattoos, for speaking Ukrainian on the street, for showing any support for Ukraine. What do you think the result would be?
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mark mywords
Active member
Actually you are correct, but I can see problems in securing such "transparent procedures" in war time Donbas which might not exist in peace time America and yet clearly the last presidential election was neither independently monitored nor transparent.
Didnt that also reportedly happen in American elections?
how true!
Victor Danilchenko
Member
Yeah. That's why you don't trust any "votes" conducted by an occupying power under the barrel of a gun.
Ah. I see you a delusional conspiracy theorist and Big Lie proponent.
Borg Refinery
Active member
There's a genocide going on in Ukraine and you're more worried about transparency in their referendums while you critique America's elections?
That said I don't like the way this thread is devolving into fighting which is supposed to be the opposite of what this place is about, but I can't state my disagreement with you enough mark (said in polite - but intensely firm - tones, on my part).
a) I deeply appreciate your resistance to going with the flow, but instead requiring evidence sufficient to trump reasonable doubt. But
b) While I generally don't endorse double-standards, I do distinguish between the standards to be applied in a law court (requiring a protocol to legally overcome reasonable doubt), and the more scientific less legalistic analysis process of crime-solving detective work. The latter legitimately makes greater use of statistical probability.
My evidence that the Putin referendum on Ukrainian sovereignty was a sham? Seriously ?!
I've seen reports in print & vid. One of the vids included uniformed troops in an apartment bloc stairwell. They might have been handing out potpourri gift baskets. Even if not, that one vid qualifies by my standard as merely an anecdote, not an authenticated verified national statistic.
You think an autocrat has never jiggered election results? Even if the purpose of the Russian troops was not to coerce the way voters voted, that doesn't mean the ballot tally was legit. And since it's so obviously a candidate for election fraud, why didn't Vlad render his vote in Ukraine impervious to criticism by demanding international poll monitors to verify election legitimacy?
You don't know why? OK, I'll TELL you why ! ...
I think she's out for blood ?
I confess O #10. Pandemic gloom and years long pandemic isolation have taken their toll on me.
The consequence: all the more I appreciate your humanitarian baseline.
In my personal world of years long pandemic gloom, your compassion is to my depleted spirit an oasis of humanitarian compassion. Thanks. I needed that.
I "liked" the first sentence of your #10.
I've been at this BBS (bulletin board system / message board) bidness since the previous millennium.
I'd like a moment of recalibrating perspective here.
I probably don't have much more patience for squabbling than you do. But I not only welcome debate here. I consider it an obligation of responsible citizenship in the "democratic" "republic" of the U.S.A.
Speeches are splendid. Campaign slogans are an integral part of our political culture. BUT !!
One of the best tests I know of is the process of debate. And the more skillful the debaters, the more enlightening.
I may not know everything about anything.
But in my decades long experience I can offer my most honest & sincere opinion: these guys are about the best I've ever known. They make brand new razor blades look dull.
- They're educated.
- They're articulate.
- If their logic armored Ukraine's military tanks, Russia would have already surrendered.
You're right of course. At worst their elbows may get a little sharper than I prefer. But as the price to pay for the generosity of their insightful contributions, it doesn't total a rounding error.
Painfully, even U.S. presidential candidate debates have sunk lower than anything you've read here. And U.S. presidents are supposed to be hot spit, the best of the best. If only !
Again my thanks to you for your civilizing influence & inclination. But let's not strangle the goose that's laying the golden eggs. I only wish I could keep up with them.
mark mywords
Active member
Victor PLEASE dont try and tell me that US elections are free, fair OR transparent!
or perhaps you think it OK to disenfranchise African American voters on the basis that they are more likely to vote Democrat.
Below in yellow North Carolina’s 12th congressional district,
(yeah seems legit to me!)
or perhaps you think it OK to disenfranchise African American voters on the basis that they are more likely to vote Democrat.
Below in yellow North Carolina’s 12th congressional district,
(yeah seems legit to me!)
Borg Refinery
Active member
To compare sham referenda in Ukraine (families threatened with death if they voted the wrong way according to reports) to the stuff in America; gerrymandering, lack of transparency at some poll places and intimidation (and even inducements in Nevada) etc, is what's a sham, Mark.
Victor Danilchenko
Member
They are both free and transparent. "Fair" is in question due to various forms of systemic rigging, from gerrymandering to Electoral College; but those pertain to how system counts the votes, not how the voting occurs.
In USA we don't have massed of fake ballots, we don't have people holding a gun to a voter's head to make her vote the "proper" way, we don't have poll workers filling out the ballots in bulk, and we don't have vote tallies made up wholesale.
Do you have a point pertinent to the topic?
mark mywords
Active member
reports by who?
Obviously there are people who have an interest in making any Russian action look bad
My point is that if your own elections are a very long way from free fair and transparent you are not really in a position to criticise the elections of others.
hands up those who think the US organised elections in Iraq were "free fair and transparent"
Victor Danilchenko
Member
"My point is that if you violate the speed limit, you have no basis to complain about murder".
Wow.
mark mywords
Active member
I am not talking about how the votes are counted I am talking about the fact that a concerted effort is made to prevent "certain" people from voting whether by wiping their names off the voter register or by closing most of the voting stations to cause people to travel long distances and stand in lines for hours
but if you want to go into voting machines which are capable of being hacked Im game
Victor Danilchenko
Member
I want to stay on the topic of this thread -- russian attempted genocide and the illegitimate, coercive, sham "referenda" in the occupied territories.
Your insuperable hunger for red herrings is quite telling. You know that you can't defend what russia did, so you are attempting to combine the fallacy of poisoning the well and tu quoque to delegitimize criticism of russia instead.
Anything but talk about russian nazi regime and their nazi practices.
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