Below The Fold ...

[Rigby5]

And you need a lot of background knowledge before your "logic" is meaningful.

Its not at all complicated.
In 1918 they caused Spanish flu to last for 2 years and killed so many people because they prevented herd immunity by using masks and closing schools and other gatherings.
Spanish flu is still around, and is insignificant now, because they no longer make people wear masks and social distance.
It is "flattening the curve" that causes a minor epidemic like covid, to kill so many people, 1.5 million.

 

[sear]

"Then the death total would only have been 60k instead of 1.5 million." R5 #96

"Its not at all complicated.
In 1918 they caused Spanish flu to last for 2 years and killed so many people because they prevented herd immunity by using masks and closing schools and other gatherings." R5 #101

mRNA technology aside, shall we dispute using masks? I thought during the global COVID-19 pandemic face-masks were in common international use.
If the face-mask itself is nonsense, why are they commonly worn in hospital operating rooms? Not only in the U.S., but also around the world?

"Spanish flu is still around, and is insignificant now, because they no longer make people wear masks and social distance.
It is "flattening the curve" that causes a minor epidemic like covid, to kill so many people, 1.5 million." R5 #101

Why?
If wearing a mask does not prevent transmission, but instead for illustrative purpose increases the number of exposures to contagious persons from two to ten,
then the %population mask-wearing would spare from contracting the disease would be those that have less than ten exposures.
Even if that, seems like there's more involved.

 

[sear]

https://www.foxweather.com/learn/first-its-kind-overpass-animals-colorado

First-of-its-kind overpass aims to stop animal-vehicle crashes in Colorado

The structure, known as the 1-25 Greenland Wildlife Overpass, spans across six lanes of traffic and was designed to allow large animals, including elk, pronghorn, mule deer, black bears, mountain lions and more, to cross 1-25.

The I-25 Greenland Wildlife Overpass was built to provide a crossing pathway for a variety of wildlife. This is the largest wildlife overpass in the world.

The Colorado Department of Transportation said the animal overpass is the largest in the world.

This will give animals access to wildlife corridors, water sources and preserve open spaces.

"Interesting" BUT ignorant?
Predators die if they don't know where to find prey.
Will this migration funnel result in an increased attrition rate over the adversity of these animals randomly scattering across the roadway?

 

[Rigby5]

mRNA technology aside, shall we dispute using masks? I thought during the global COVID-19 pandemic face-masks were in common international use.
If the face-mask itself is nonsense, why are they commonly worn in hospital operating rooms? Not only in the U.S., but also around the world?


Why?
If wearing a mask does not prevent transmission, but instead for illustrative purpose increases the number of exposures to contagious persons from two to ten,
then the %population mask-wearing would spare from contracting the disease would be those that have less than ten exposures.
Even if that, seems like there's more involved.

Masks are good when there is a risk of high fatality.
When the risk of fatality is low, like covid, where it is not worth a full quarantine, then accelerating spread saves lives because you end it more quickly.

Operating room masks are for large organisms in saliva that would cause infection of incisions.

When lethality is high, you stop spread.
When lethality is low, you accelerate spread.

 

[Rigby5]

https://www.foxweather.com/learn/first-its-kind-overpass-animals-colorado

First-of-its-kind overpass aims to stop animal-vehicle crashes in Colorado

The structure, known as the 1-25 Greenland Wildlife Overpass, spans across six lanes of traffic and was designed to allow large animals, including elk, pronghorn, mule deer, black bears, mountain lions and more, to cross 1-25.

The I-25 Greenland Wildlife Overpass was built to provide a crossing pathway for a variety of wildlife. This is the largest wildlife overpass in the world.

The Colorado Department of Transportation said the animal overpass is the largest in the world.

This will give animals access to wildlife corridors, water sources and preserve open spaces.

"Interesting" BUT ignorant?
Predators die if they don't know where to find prey.
Will this migration funnel result in an increased attrition rate over the adversity of these animals randomly scattering across the roadway?

New Mexico uses much smaller and cheaper under passes.
The predators use them too.

 

[sear]

"Masks are good when there is a risk of high fatality." R5 #104

It's imprudent to conflate severity of consequence with degree of contagiousness.

"When lethality is high, you stop spread.
When lethality is low, you accelerate spread." R5 #104

That's subjective. Who should decide the criteria for these distinctions?

 

[sear]

"New Mexico uses much smaller and cheaper under passes.
The predators use them too." R5 #105

Seems to me I've seen pics of such underpasses. As you suggest, one of the problems, each end of the underpass included blind-spots, ideal locations for predators to await opportunity for ambush.

To be clear:
large animal roadkill not a trivial issue in the U.S.

• Over the most recently reported 15-year period, wildlife-vehicle collisions have increased by 50%, from roughly 200,000 to 300,000, even though the overall number of collisions remained roughly steady over the same period (id.).
• Reported collisions between motorists and wildlife cause more than 200 human fatalities and over 26,000 injuries each year, at an annual cost to Americans of more than $8 billion (id.).

https://largelandscapes.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Wildlife-vehicle-Conflict-Crossing-Structures-and-Cost-Estimates.pdf

That does not necessarily mean building them a bridge solves the problem.

How viable is teaching large game how to safely cross a highway? "Look both ways" ?

 

[Shiftless2]

Spanish flu is still around, and is insignificant now, because they no longer make people wear masks and social distance.

No, the original 1918 Spanish Flu virus isn't circulating as a pandemic threat today, but its descendant viruses, particularly H1N1, are still around as seasonal flu strains, constantly evolving but generally less severe, with genes from the 1918 strain persisting in current flu viruses. The "Spanish Flu" itself ended by 1920, but its legacy lives on as part of the ongoing cycle of flu viruses we experience yearly, with new pandemics emerging when viruses significantly mutate.

But Rigby, since you seem to be contradicting every reputable medical authority we still need to know what qualifies you to do so. Where did you get your multiple PhD's?

 

[Rigby5]

It's imprudent to conflate severity of consequence with degree of contagiousness.


That's subjective. Who should decide the criteria for these distinctions?

The degree of contagiousness is not relevant.
You WANT to speed up contagion when the epidemic is not very lethal, in order to end it with herd immunity more quickly.

{...
As of May 2, 2023, the number of COVID-19 cases worldwide had reached over 687 million. In addition, the number of deaths from COVID-19 was over 6.86 million.
...}

That means the covid risk of death was about 1%.
Since that was too low to warrant full quarantine, contact tracing, etc., the only possible remaining solution is to accelerate spread in order to speed up herd immunity.
When you do not do full quarantine and contact tracing, then you only have herd immunity left.
Herd immunity is prevented by masks and social distancing.
Herd immunity needs 72% to get infected and recover.
Masks and social distancing preserves host, so keeps the epidemic going forever.

 

[Shiftless2]

Rigby, we keep coming back to this - what qualifications do you have that makes your criticism of the various medical authorities valid?

 

[Rigby5]

No, the original 1918 Spanish Flu virus isn't circulating as a pandemic threat today, but its descendant viruses, particularly H1N1, are still around as seasonal flu strains, constantly evolving but generally less severe, with genes from the 1918 strain persisting in current flu viruses. The "Spanish Flu" itself ended by 1920, but its legacy lives on as part of the ongoing cycle of flu viruses we experience yearly, with new pandemics emerging when viruses significantly mutate.

But Rigby, since you seem to be contradicting every reputable medical authority we still need to know what qualifies you to do so. Where did you get your multiple PhD's?

I disagree.
Spanish flu did not and can not disappear.
Variants can evolve, but they would not change the main genome.

All reputed medical authorities are my source.
The all say that you quarantine and contact trace very lethal pathogens, but with very low lethality then instead you accelerate infection to end it quickly with herd immunity.

The only reason Fauci broke with the established procedures is that he hoped the vaccines would work instead.
But the mRNA totally failed, so it was a disaster.
A complete washout.

 

[Rigby5]

Rigby, we keep coming back to this - what qualifications do you have that makes your criticism of the various medical authorities valid?

Your concept of the "various medical authorities" is what is invalid.
Again, all you have to do is look up "herd immunity".
Obviously that is what real vaccines do.
They essentially give the person the illness, but without as much risk.
Achieving herd immunity as quickly as possible is how you reduce the death toll.
And that can be by vaccination or recovery.
Since we do not have a valid vaccine for covid, that leaves ONLY recovery.
There is no medical person who disagrees with that.
The experts hoped the mRNA would be a vaccine, but it clearly is not.
It has no effect after 2 months.
And no vaccine is like that, since T-cells live for more like a decade.

 

[Shiftless2]

I disagree.
Spanish flu did not and can not disappear.
Variants can evolve, but they would not change the main genome.

All reputed medical authorities are my source.
The all say that you quarantine and contact trace very lethal pathogens, but with very low lethality then instead you accelerate infection to end it quickly with herd immunity.

The only reason Fauci broke with the established procedures is that he hoped the vaccines would work instead.
But the mRNA totally failed, so it was a disaster.
A complete washout.

And we come back to the elephant in the corner. Rigby, since you seem to be contradicting every reputable medical authority we still need to know what qualifies you to do so. Where did you get your multiple PhD's?

 

[Shiftless2]

Spanish flu is still around, and is insignificant now, because they no longer make people wear masks and social distance.

No, the original 1918 Spanish Flu virus isn't circulating as a pandemic threat today, but its descendant viruses, particularly H1N1, are still around as seasonal flu strains, constantly evolving but generally less severe, with genes from the 1918 strain persisting in current flu viruses. The "Spanish Flu" itself ended by 1920, but its legacy lives on as part of the ongoing cycle of flu viruses we experience yearly, with new pandemics emerging when viruses significantly mutate.

But Rigby, since you seem to be contradicting every reputable medical authority we still need to know what qualifies you to do so. Where did you get your multiple PhD's?

 

[Shiftless2]

Your concept of the "various medical authorities" is what is invalid.
Again, all you have to do is look up "herd immunity".
Obviously that is what real vaccines do.
They essentially give the person the illness, but without as much risk.
Achieving herd immunity as quickly as possible is how you reduce the death toll.
And that can be by vaccination or recovery.
Since we do not have a valid vaccine for covid, that leaves ONLY recovery.
There is no medical person who disagrees with that.
The experts hoped the mRNA would be a vaccine, but it clearly is not.
It has no effect after 2 months.
And no vaccine is like that, since T-cells live for more like a decade.

You seem to be saying that you've done your own research. Where is it published.

 

[Rigby5]

And we come back to the elephant in the corner. Rigby, since you seem to be contradicting every reputable medical authority we still need to know what qualifies you to do so. Where did you get your multiple PhD's?

No I am not.
There is not a single person who claims the mRNA created any immunity because after 2 months, the mRNA had no effect any more.
A real immunity normally lasts more like 30 years.
The shortest immunity is for Pertussis, (whooping cough), which only last 10 years.

 

[Rigby5]

You seem to be saying that you've done your own research. Where is it published.

Wrong.
Obviously the mRNA not only did not work, but no mRNA concoction has ever worked or likely ever could work as a vaccine.
All mRNA does is make your ribosomes start growing proteins, and that does not cause any immunity to anything.

So without a vaccine, the only way to end any epidemic is either with full quarantine to prevent any infection, or to deliberately accelerate infection to achieve herd immunity.
There are no other strategies and can be no other strategies.

 

[Rigby5]

No, the original 1918 Spanish Flu virus isn't circulating as a pandemic threat today, but its descendant viruses, particularly H1N1, are still around as seasonal flu strains, constantly evolving but generally less severe, with genes from the 1918 strain persisting in current flu viruses. The "Spanish Flu" itself ended by 1920, but its legacy lives on as part of the ongoing cycle of flu viruses we experience yearly, with new pandemics emerging when viruses significantly mutate.

But Rigby, since you seem to be contradicting every reputable medical authority we still need to know what qualifies you to do so. Where did you get your multiple PhD's?

Wrong.
The exact same 1918 Spanish flu is ubiquitous.
It is just one of the hundreds of different flu viruses that make the rounds.
The reason we no longer notice is that we do not mask and social distance for it anymore, so it quickly goes away.

Every honest medical authority is who I am quoting.

 

[Shiftless2]

Obviously the mRNA not only did not work, but no mRNA concoction has ever worked or likely ever could work as a vaccine.

You can produce links to published articles in legitimate peer reviewed journals that confirm that?

As for the 1918 Spanish flu I stand by my statement. The original flu is not with us - but you might want to read this

The Deadliest Flu: The Complete Story of the Discovery and Reconstruction of the 1918 Pandemic Virus | Pandemic Influenza (Flu) | CDC

The true story of how the 1918 pandemic virus was discovered, sequenced and eventually reconstructed in a CDC laboratory to unpack its secrets and protect against future pandemics.

archive.cdc.gov

 

[Rigby5]

You can produce links to published articles in legitimate peer reviewed journals that confirm that?

As for the 1918 Spanish flu I stand by my statement. The original flu is not with us - but you might want to read this

The Deadliest Flu: The Complete Story of the Discovery and Reconstruction of the 1918 Pandemic Virus | Pandemic Influenza (Flu) | CDC

The true story of how the 1918 pandemic virus was discovered, sequenced and eventually reconstructed in a CDC laboratory to unpack its secrets and protect against future pandemics.

archive.cdc.gov

Everything I read says that H1N1 is the same Spanish flu.

{...
In the years after 1920, the disease came to represent the "seasonal flu". The virus, H1N1, remained endemic, occasionally causing more severe or otherwise notable outbreaks.
The period since its initial appearance in 1918 has been termed a "pandemic era", in which all flu pandemics have been caused by its own descendants.
Following the first of these post-1918 pandemics, in 1957, the virus was totally displaced by the novel H2N2, the reassortant product of the human H1N1 and an avian influenza virus, which thereafter became the active influenza A virus in humans.

In 1977, an influenza virus bearing a very close resemblance to the seasonal H1N1, which had not been seen since the 1950s, appeared in Russia and subsequently initiated a "technical" pandemic that principally affected those 26 and under.
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-Taubenberger-2009-191"><span>[</span>188<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-Rozo-2015-192"><span>[</span>189<span>]</span></a>
While some natural explanations, such as the virus remaining in some frozen state for 20 years, have been proposed to explain this unprecedented phenomenon, the nature of influenza itself has been cited in favor of human involvement of some kind, such as an accidental leak from a lab where the old virus had been preserved for research purposes.
Following this miniature pandemic, the reemerged H1N1 became endemic again but did not displace the other active influenza A virus, H3N2 (which itself had displaced H2N2 through a pandemic in 1968).
For the first time, two influenza A viruses were observed in cocirculation.
This state has persisted even after 2009, when a novel H1N1 virus emerged, sparked a pandemic, and thereafter took the place of the seasonal H1N1 to circulate alongside H3N2.
...}

Spanish flu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org