Uvalde - the followup

"Since gun rights are not only 2nd amendment, but primary to defense of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, it seems wrong to deny gun rights over a misdemeanor?
Should a bank guard lose his job over a domestic violence misdemeanor?" R5 #320
The right to keep & bear arms may be a subset / component of the Liberty right.
It is a Founding principle of the United States of America that Liberty is a:
- Creator endowed
- Constitutionally enumerated *
- unalienable right.

This becomes a "where do you draw the line" issue, somewhere between megalomaniac Hitler, and litterer Steve.
The complication:
when governing a population of hundreds of millions, wherever the line is drawn will be too severe for some, and not severe enough for others.

I've recounted the anecdote several times, seems appropriate here:
Conversing near the parts counter at the motorcycle dealership I noticed the product on the counter,
a brand new handlebar-mount rear view mirror still attached to its retail marketing cardboard placard with the word "UNIVERSAL" emblazoned across it.
My salesman explained "Universal means it doesn't fit anything."

It's an insight that has served me well.
Setting the minimum drinking age at 18 for example, premised on the idea that before the 18th birthday citizens aren't mature enough
ignores the fact that no two citizens mature at exactly the same rate.
It's a "one size fits all" standard in law in context of the fact it actually fits almost no one.

Just one of the complications of administering justice to a population of hundreds of millions.

* The word Liberty is not found within the main body of the Constitution, until the 5th Amendment. BUT !
The word Liberty does appear in the Constitution's Preamble, which some scholars consider to be a
"spirit of the law" introduction to our "letter of the law" Constitution.
 
The right to keep & bear arms may be a subset / component of the Liberty right.
It is a Founding principle of the United States of America that Liberty is a:
- Creator endowed
- Constitutionally enumerated *
- unalienable right.

This becomes a "where do you draw the line" issue, somewhere between megalomaniac Hitler, and litterer Steve.
The complication:
when governing a population of hundreds of millions, wherever the line is drawn will be too severe for some, and not severe enough for others.

I've recounted the anecdote several times, seems appropriate here:
Conversing near the parts counter at the motorcycle dealership I noticed the product on the counter,
a brand new handlebar-mount rear view mirror still attached to its retail marketing cardboard placard with the word "UNIVERSAL" emblazoned across it.
My salesman explained "Universal means it doesn't fit anything."

It's an insight that has served me well.
Setting the minimum drinking age at 18 for example, premised on the idea that before the 18th birthday citizens aren't mature enough
ignores the fact that no two citizens mature at exactly the same rate.
It's a "one size fits all" standard in law in context of the fact it actually fits almost no one.

Just one of the complications of administering justice to a population of hundreds of millions.

* The word Liberty is not found within the main body of the Constitution, until the 5th Amendment. BUT !
The word Liberty does appear in the Constitution's Preamble, which some scholars consider to be a
"spirit of the law" introduction to our "letter of the law" Constitution.

Since this country was founded by an armed civilian rebellion, it kind of makes armed citizens essential our existence as a democratic republic.

The misdemeanor domestic abuse charge also is not proof of the person being a danger, since it could not have been a lethal act or the charge would have been a felony instead.
And in fact, most domestic violence situations share some mutual guilt.

And the real question is whether or not the judge in the domestic abuse case was aware and intended for the armed professional to lose his job?
By passing this bill now, then it is after the fact and will cause job loses the judges never intended.
It essentially has legislators passing sentence generically instead of a judge who heard all the specific facts.
And in fact I find all attempts at mandatory sentencing to be inherently illegal.
 
"And the real question is whether or not the judge in the domestic abuse case was aware and intended for the armed professional to lose his job?" R5

"The fact that Americans speak about "legalizing" abortion, gambling, marijuana, and so forth shows that they no longer look down on their government as their servant
but look up to it as their master.
For to legalize is to permit; and to permit implies a relationship between a superior and a subordinate - as when a parent permits a child to go swimming, stay up late, or eat sweets after his meal." psychiatrist Thomas Szasz MD
 
"The fact that Americans speak about "legalizing" abortion, gambling, marijuana, and so forth shows that they no longer look down on their government as their servant
but look up to it as their master.
For to legalize is to permit; and to permit implies a relationship between a superior and a subordinate - as when a parent permits a child to go swimming, stay up late, or eat sweets after his meal." psychiatrist Thomas Szasz MD

I agree and the government never should have been allowed the authority over abortion, gambling, marijuana, alcohol, immigration, Iranian nukes, etc.
 
Szasz, a sensible guy.

"I agree and the government never should have been allowed the authority over abortion, gambling, marijuana, alcohol, immigration, Iranian nukes, etc." R5 #324
"The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits." Thomas Jefferson
"gambling":
The problem with gambling is not the friendly game with men male-bonding in a smoke-filled room once a month.
It's the compulsive personality that first gambles away his earnings, and then compounds his problem by gambling more in hope of winning it back.
The problem?
When he then gets his legs broken, it becomes government's job to tidy up.
And it's easier for government to simply outlaw it, than to mop up when it goes wrong.

"alcohol":
The problem is not the small glass of wine at the banquet table.
The problem is the bottle of Ripple in the grip of the derelict behind the dumpster.
Will he get rolled?
Will he pass out and freeze to death?
Will he assault a passerby, an attempted robbery?

"Iranian nukes":
We already had a glimpse of what nuclear blackmail is like.
Putin suggested Russia might use nukes to protect / defend the territory it occupies in Ukraine.
The risk of Iranian nukes include potentially cataclysmic nuclear blackmail, potentially ending the human race.
 
Szasz, a sensible guy.



"gambling":
The problem with gambling is not the friendly game with men male-bonding in a smoke-filled room once a month.
It's the compulsive personality that first gambles away his earnings, and then compounds his problem by gambling more in hope of winning it back.
The problem?
When he then gets his legs broken, it becomes government's job to tidy up.
And it's easier for government to simply outlaw it, than to mop up when it goes wrong.

"alcohol":
The problem is not the small glass of wine at the banquet table.
The problem is the bottle of Ripple in the grip of the derelict behind the dumpster.
Will he get rolled?
Will he pass out and freeze to death?
Will he assault a passerby, an attempted robbery?

"Iranian nukes":
We already had a glimpse of what nuclear blackmail is like.
Putin suggested Russia might use nukes to protect / defend the territory it occupies in Ukraine.
The risk of Iranian nukes include potentially cataclysmic nuclear blackmail, potentially ending the human race.

Whether or not it would be better without gambling, alcohol, or Iranian nukes, that is beyond the authority of a democratic republic.

Gambling and alcohol are actually just medical problems the police are totally unable to deal with at all.
And both Russia and the Iran have the right to nuke the US after the crimes we committed.
If you are following the video from the Ukraine, there are huge protest against Zelensky.
The US created one of the worst dictatorships in the world with the 2014 Maidan Coup.
You can also find lots of videos of press gangs kidnapping teens in the Ukraine, and the violence by the parents to stop them.
 
"Whether or not it would be better without gambling, alcohol, or Iranian nukes, that is beyond the authority of a democratic republic." R5 #326
Splendid.
What's the alternative?
Allow global malefactors to plot total global cataclysmic genocide, because it "is beyond the authority of a democratic republic" to preserve constructive prosperity for over 8 Billion with a B humans?

If you're standing on the dock, and you see a helpless child splashing furiously in the water, drowning, would you shrug and walk away, because you are not the duly appointed life-guard on duty at that moment at that location?

Sometimes R5, duty falls to the one that can, whether they have the formal "authority" or not.
Do you really, sincerely believe the U.S. should stand on ceremony, on formality, and knowingly allow humanity to cross a nuclear or doomsday Rubicon, because though it has the capacity, the ability to forestall planetary genocide, the U.S. does not have the "authority"?
Taking that (your) position prioritizes process as more important than result. ... Everybody died, BUT at least we followed the rules ! ... ?!?!?!
 
Splendid.
What's the alternative?
Allow global malefactors to plot total global cataclysmic genocide, because it "is beyond the authority of a democratic republic" to preserve constructive prosperity for over 8 Billion with a B humans?

If you're standing on the dock, and you see a helpless child splashing furiously in the water, drowning, would you shrug and walk away, because you are not the duly appointed life-guard on duty at that moment at that location?

Sometimes R5, duty falls to the one that can, whether they have the formal "authority" or not.
Do you really, sincerely believe the U.S. should stand on ceremony, on formality, and knowingly allow humanity to cross a nuclear or doomsday Rubicon, because though it has the capacity, the ability to forestall planetary genocide, the U.S. does not have the "authority"?
Taking that (your) position prioritizes process as more important than result. ... Everybody died, BUT at least we followed the rules ! ... ?!?!?!

This is not deciding to help out a drowning child.
This is deliberate murder of hundreds of innocent people when we blew up the Ayatollah, including his wife.
Nor can it possibly succeed, since there is absolutely no way to prevent Iran or anyone, from secretly building nukes.
All this murdering does is force even more countries to build nukes, and then they will have no choice but to destroy the US as the ones who are incompatible with civilized life.
Murdering the Ayatollah and his wife is exactly the definition of illegal terrorism, something Iran has never done themselves.
What the US did can never be allowed.
It is the single worst possible war crime.
This is especially true since somehow Obama had gotten the Iranians to stop enriching for 15 years.
Which proves that Iran is not the problem.
 
"This is not deciding to help out a drowning child.
This is deliberate murder of hundreds of innocent people when we blew up the Ayatollah, including his wife." R5 #328
If you're citing the current Trump / Netanyahu War on Iran, I agree. I do not endorse it. I oppose it. The current headlines about it, whatever they may be, are reason enough for my unreserved opposition to this War.

Instead, I rather more endorse the Obama administration's JCPOA we implemented with Iran, Britain, France, Germany, China, & Russia.

"Nor can it possibly succeed, since there is absolutely no way to prevent Iran or anyone, from secretly building nukes." R5 #328
So you may claim. BUT !
Those that negotiated the JCPOA, Britain, France, Germany, China, & Russia apparently believe otherwise.
Not clear to me what you think you know that you think they didn't.
But however resourceful your perspective may seem, I think it unlikely that you are right, and the world-class experts and international negotiators of these 7 nations are all wrong. Possible.
Unlikely.

"It is the single worst possible war crime." R5 #328
It's bad. I see no benefit to quibbling superlatives,
beyond acknowledging that Trump habitually expresses himself in superlatives, and is very frequently wrong as a result.

"Which proves that Iran is not the problem." R5 #328
It may be evidence Iran is not the sole provocateur.
It does not elevate Iran to choirboy status.
Numerous corroborating reports from a wide variety of sources cite Iran as supporter of violence groups such as the Houthis.

The Houthis,[d] officially known as Ansar Allah,[e] is a Zaydi[a] revivalist and Shia Islamist political and military organization that emerged from Yemen in the 1990s. It is predominantly made up of Zaydis, whose namesake leadership is drawn largely from the al-Houthi family.[94] The Houthis are backed by Iran,[95][96][97] and they are widely considered part of the Iranian-led "Axis of Resistance".[95][98] The group has been a central player in Yemen's civil war, drawing widespread international condemnation for its human rights abuses, including targeting civilians[99][100] and allegedly using child soldiers.[101]
 
If you're citing the current Trump / Netanyahu War on Iran, I agree. I do not endorse it. I oppose it. The current headlines about it, whatever they may be, are reason enough for my unreserved opposition to this War.

Instead, I rather more endorse the Obama administration's JCPOA we implemented with Iran, Britain, France, Germany, China, & Russia.


So you may claim. BUT !
Those that negotiated the JCPOA, Britain, France, Germany, China, & Russia apparently believe otherwise.
Not clear to me what you think you know that you think they didn't.
But however resourceful your perspective may seem, I think it unlikely that you are right, and the world-class experts and international negotiators of these 7 nations are all wrong. Possible.
Unlikely.


It's bad. I see no benefit to quibbling superlatives,
beyond acknowledging that Trump habitually expresses himself in superlatives, and is very frequently wrong as a result.


It may be evidence Iran is not the sole provocateur.
It does not elevate Iran to choirboy status.
Numerous corroborating reports from a wide variety of sources cite Iran as supporter of violence groups such as the Houthis.

The Houthis,[d] officially known as Ansar Allah,[e] is a Zaydi[a] revivalist and Shia Islamist political and military organization that emerged from Yemen in the 1990s. It is predominantly made up of Zaydis, whose namesake leadership is drawn largely from the al-Houthi family.[94] The Houthis are backed by Iran,[95][96][97] and they are widely considered part of the Iranian-led "Axis of Resistance".[95][98] The group has been a central player in Yemen's civil war, drawing widespread international condemnation for its human rights abuses, including targeting civilians[99][100] and allegedly using child soldiers.[101]

There are no experts who claim they can detect secret work to enrich uranium.
With Obama and Iran, they simply talked Iran into feeling they were no longer threatened, and did not need a nuclear deterrent.

Murdering one person is a crime, but murdering the leader of a whole nation, is an act of war.

Now that we blew up the Ayatollah and his wife, it has to be clearly to everyone that they do need a nuclear deterrent after what Trump did.

And I also believe you misunderstand Yemen.
The Houthis are not new or influenced by Iran.
They are the actual owners and natives of Yemen.
The British took over more than a hundred years ago, and currently the Saudis are trying to maintain that British colony for themselves.
It is the Saudis who are the criminals, not the Houthis, and Iran is just supporting justice, in my opinion.

Here is the real histoy:
{...
The British were looking for a coal depot to service their steamers en route to India. It took 700 tons of coal for a round-trip from Suez to Bombay. East India Company officials decided on Aden. London tried to reach an agreement with the Zaydi imam of Sanaa permitting them a foothold in Mocha; and when unable to secure their position, they extracted a similar agreement from the Sultan of Lahej, enabling them to consolidate a position in Aden.[146][147]

An incident played into British hands when, while passing Aden for trading purposes, one of their sailing ships sank and Arab tribesmen boarded it and plundered its contents. The British India government dispatched a warship under the command of Captain Stafford Bettesworth Haines to demand compensation.[147] Haines bombarded Aden from his warship in January 1839. The ruler of Lahej, who was in Aden at the time, ordered his guards to defend the port, but they failed in the face of overwhelming military and naval power. The British managed to occupy Aden and agreed to compensate the sultan with an annual payment of 6000 riyals.[147] The British evicted the Sultan of Lahej from
Aden and forced him to accept their "protection".[147] In November 1839, 5000 tribesmen tried to retake the town but were repulsed and 200 were killed. The British realized that Aden's prosperity depended on their relations with the neighboring tribes, which required that they rest on a firm and satisfactory basis.[148]

The British government concluded "protection and friendship" treaties with nine tribes surrounding Aden, whereas they would remain independent from British interference in their affairs as long as they do not conclude treaties with foreigners (non-Arab colonial powers).[149] Aden was declared a free zone in 1850. With emigrants from India, East Africa and Southeast Asia, Aden grew into a "world city". In 1850, only 980 Arabs were registered as original inhabitants of the city.[150] The English presence in Aden put them at odds with the Ottomans. The Turks asserted to the British that they held sovereignty over the whole of Arabia, including Yemen as successor of Muhammad and the chief of the universal Caliphate.
...}

The British are the bad guys, and they turned Yemen into an imperial colony.
The Houthis have always been the legal inhabitants and owners, and the Saudis are actually acting as an agent of the US, and have no business in Yemen.
 
"There are no experts who claim they can detect secret work to enrich uranium." R5 #330
Not clear to me where you're getting your disinformation.
Prestigious sources contradict your position:

What are the telltale clues of covert production?
“The production of either plutonium or highly enriched uranium is a major operation that requires people and time,” says Kemp. The involvement of many people means traditional intelligence has some chance of finding the program. But traditional intelligence can be unreliable, especially in closed societies like North Korea. Technical mechanisms would provide a useful overlay.

Detecting plutonium production, Kemp says, is easier than detecting enriched-uranium production for several reasons. The first clue is the heat signature. “Nearly all plutonium production occurs in nuclear reactors, and they obviously produce a lot of heat,” he says. “There are clever things a country could do to hide the heat signature, but they are not simple. Infrared satellites can search for waste heat leaving buildings, or being pumped into rivers or oceans.

A second clue comes from chemical signatures. The processing of reactor fuel to extract plutonium creates chemical effluent, which could be another promising detection pathway. “In addition to plutonium, the nuclear reactor will also produce a mix of other radionuclides — and while most are trapped in the reactor, a few leak out to the environment,” says Kemp, “especially the noble gases, such as radioactive isotopes of xenon and krypton.”


That's only a sample.
 
Not clear to me where you're getting your disinformation.
Prestigious sources contradict your position:

What are the telltale clues of covert production?
“The production of either plutonium or highly enriched uranium is a major operation that requires people and time,” says Kemp. The involvement of many people means traditional intelligence has some chance of finding the program. But traditional intelligence can be unreliable, especially in closed societies like North Korea. Technical mechanisms would provide a useful overlay.

Detecting plutonium production, Kemp says, is easier than detecting enriched-uranium production for several reasons. The first clue is the heat signature. “Nearly all plutonium production occurs in nuclear reactors, and they obviously produce a lot of heat,” he says. “There are clever things a country could do to hide the heat signature, but they are not simple. Infrared satellites can search for waste heat leaving buildings, or being pumped into rivers or oceans.

A second clue comes from chemical signatures. The processing of reactor fuel to extract plutonium creates chemical effluent, which could be another promising detection pathway. “In addition to plutonium, the nuclear reactor will also produce a mix of other radionuclides — and while most are trapped in the reactor, a few leak out to the environment,” says Kemp, “especially the noble gases, such as radioactive isotopes of xenon and krypton.”


That's only a sample.

These search methods do not apply to Iran.
First of all, the production sites are underground, so there is no possible heat signature.
Second is that the main method they are using is centrifuges, which do not require a nuclear reactor.
The third way of detecting radioactive by-products only works if you have access to the entire country, and they are careless of how they discard the wastes.
Since no one is allowed anywhere near the production sites and they can bury wastes in old mines, that is not going to work.

If what this said was true, then we should have been easily able to determine absolutely if Israel had nukes or not, and we could not.
And in fact we have never once been able to detect the development of nuclear weapons until they were demonstrated.

Since Iran has no nuclear reactors, and therefore has to go the uranium route instead of the plutonium route, here is what the article said about uranium detection:
{...
And what about uranium enrichment? “It also produces a distinct chemical signature,” says Kemp, which is caused when uranium hexafluoride (UF6) gas leaks into the atmosphere. The probability of a leak is very small, but it happens. When the gas escapes into open air, water vapor causes it to decompose into hydrofluoric acid and a specific kind of dust-like aerosol. The hydrofluoric acid is not useful in terms of detection. It is too reactive and disappears whenever it touches dirt, or a building, or a tree. “You are not going to detect it at any meaningful distance,” says Kemp. But the other byproduct, the dust-like aerosol, is another story.

A new way to track secret nuclear activity

The dust produced by uranium enrichment is an aerosol called uranyl fluoride (UO2F2), and it has a chemical form that is unique to uranium processing operations, says. Kemp. He is interested in working with his colleagues on the engineering faculty to develop detectors that can identify the molecule's distinctive chemical bonds. “There are many techniques for identifying molecules, but the sensitivity required in this case is exceedingly high, and the aerosol form presents a number of other challenges,” he says.

“If we could come up with extremely sensitive detectors that are cheap enough to put around a country without a lot of fancy equipment or maintenance, we would make significant inroads into the problem of detecting clandestine uranium-enrichment programs.” Imagine, he says, something like small weather stations with a solar-powered box that has a tamper-proof seal on it. It has a tiny fan that blows air over a sensor that searches the telltale U-F bond, and then sends an alert signal if the molecule is detected.
...}

And again, the point is that this requires free access to the area so that these detector sensors can be placed.
The article is assuming the country was pretending compliance, so then allowed full access.
Obviously Iran is never going to allow any access ever again after the Ayatollah was murdered.

The reality is that since all oil is going to be used up in less than 70 years, all countries are going to have to go nuclear.
Which will make weapons detection even more impossible.
 
Our methods may not be perfect.
I wouldn't leverage that into an excuse to abandon all U.S. intelligence gathering. It's a dangerous world.

I sincerely hope the above quoted source does not detail 100% of our sources and methods. I'd like to believe we have additional sources of information
including equipment purchases, infrastructure layout, confidential informants, etc.

"Which will make weapons detection even more impossible." R5 #332
We have a backup plan. It's called "M.A.D.".
 
Our methods may not be perfect.
I wouldn't leverage that into an excuse to abandon all U.S. intelligence gathering. It's a dangerous world.

I sincerely hope the above quoted source does not detail 100% of our sources and methods. I'd like to believe we have additional sources of information
including equipment purchases, infrastructure layout, confidential informants, etc.


We have a backup plan. It's called "M.A.D.".

The original article was overly optimistic since it struck me as a sale pitch in order to gain funding.
But even if we know Iran is enriching, there is nothing we can do about it.
There are many ways they can go about it.
One is the deep mineshaft hardened approach.
Another would be the small scattered approach, where you might only have a single centrifuge at a location instead of hundreds.
It is also possible to hide one in the nuclear power plant of another country.
Or even under water.
And in fact Russia and China appear to be very close to assisting them.

The point of MAD is that you based your defense on the threat of retaliation.
Which is why is it immoral cheating for the US to not let Iran have that nuclear deterrent.
Which implies the US does intent to attack Iran again, in order to steal their oil, just as we did in 1953.
 
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"The original article was overly optimistic since it struck me as a sale pitch in order to gain funding.
But even if we know Iran is enriching, there is nothing we can do about it." R5 #334
We could address the Christmas card DC sends to Tehran to: Irritable Diaper Hats.

There's plenty we could do, including a tersely worded message, trade sanctions, etc.

"The point of MAD is that you based your defense on the treat of retaliation." R5 #334
Freudian penis?
 
We could address the Christmas card DC sends to Tehran to: Irritable Diaper Hats.

There's plenty we could do, including a tersely worded message, trade sanctions, etc.


Freudian penis?

Trade sanctions violate inherent rights of individuals, so are inherently illegal.
Since the US relies on MAD, it then is contradictory to not allow others that same defensive capacity.
Either MAD is wrong and the US should not have nuclear weapons, or MAD is right and everyone should have them.
Since the US has the greatest history of aggressive abuse of other countries, it is the last country that should have nuclear weapons really.
 
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