Shiftless2
Well-known member
power
‘The Supreme Court Debated My Right to Be on the Track Team’
What it’s like at the center of a case that may affect trans athletes across the country.
As told to Molly Longman
What to call this thread?
- Thread starter Shiftless2
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In the discourse of public debate one of the easy ways to identify the legitimate* side is the integrity of the rhetoric.
Not the "right to be on the track team". Instead,
whether to compete on the male team, or the female team.
* or in some cases the less illegitimate
No.
Not the "right to be on the track team". Instead,
whether to compete on the male team, or the female team.
* or in some cases the less illegitimate
I don't like anything about the case.
First of all, they used hormone therapy before the kid was even 11, and that is a horrible idea, since puberty had not been reached yet, so they had not achieved either sex yet.
Second is that they still are going to have different bone structure, muscle types, etc. that prevent appropriate competition.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
Absolute nonsense. So you're saying a prepubescent child can't be labelled as male or female??
And if those hormones are administered before puberty that doesn't hold true - the differences in bone structure are due to hormone.
Correct.
I am claiming a prepubescent child is not any sex yet.
That is because the birth genitals do not dictate gender to me.
What is the most defining is the mental orientation that comes with puberty.
The differences in bone structure are due to hormones, but I think the hormone difference starts at birth?
But I am not really sure of that?
Shiftless2
Well-known member
You're confusing sex and gender - the two are not the same and they don't always agree. With rare exceptions (intersex individuals) sex is a function of the child's genitals.
And children self-identify by gender at a very young age - as early as two or three - long before puberty
To repeat - children self-identify by gender at a very young age (as early as two or three) long before puberty.
If you need a few examples look at any of these kids - they knew they were trans long before puberty raised it's head.
Or look at Jazz Jennings - perhaps the poster child for trans children she transitioned at about age 5 - if you read her various comments she talks about starting school (kindergarten) as a girl and having some kids who knew her previously saying things like "didn't you used to be a boy?"
That's because that's not the case - the differences in bone structure and muscularity start with puberty.
When feminists feared the 'lavender menace' of lesbians — and how those lesbians fought back
In the late 1960s and early 1970s, second-wave feminism, a.k.a. women’s liberation, was gathering steam, but it still didn’t have widespread support. Many Americans wondered why feminists would protest the revered Miss America pageant, as they did in 1968. “Women’s lib” was a punch line for comedians, and TV shows often presented feminist characters in a negative light. Amid all this, some feminist leaders were worried that their movement would have an image problem because of the presence of … lesbians.
Betty Friedan was one of the feminists particularly worried about lesbians. Friedan authored The Feminine Mystique, a 1963 book that revealed the dissatisfaction many women felt with traditional roles. It helped inspire second-wave feminism, although it was criticized for its focus on affluent white straight women. In 1966, Friedan and others founded the National Organization for Women, which became the leading U.S. feminist group.
www.advocate.com
Lesbians fought homophobia in the feminist movement with humor and heart.
Jan 31, 2026In the late 1960s and early 1970s, second-wave feminism, a.k.a. women’s liberation, was gathering steam, but it still didn’t have widespread support. Many Americans wondered why feminists would protest the revered Miss America pageant, as they did in 1968. “Women’s lib” was a punch line for comedians, and TV shows often presented feminist characters in a negative light. Amid all this, some feminist leaders were worried that their movement would have an image problem because of the presence of … lesbians.
Betty Friedan was one of the feminists particularly worried about lesbians. Friedan authored The Feminine Mystique, a 1963 book that revealed the dissatisfaction many women felt with traditional roles. It helped inspire second-wave feminism, although it was criticized for its focus on affluent white straight women. In 1966, Friedan and others founded the National Organization for Women, which became the leading U.S. feminist group.
When feminists feared the 'lavender menace' of lesbians — and how those lesbians fought back
Lesbians fought homophobia in the feminist movement with humor and heart.
www.advocate.com
The reason I disagree about "self-identifying by gender" at an early age, is that is more like role playing.
They may like a more nurturing role like providing meals, or a more assertive role like being a breadwinner.
But I think both are just like playing house, and are not sexual.
That is because they do not yet know what sex is.
And the reality is that either sex can be nurturing or assertive.
Those are totally independent features.
And it is a mistake by them and by adults to link them to gender.
But you are probably right about kids being physically neutral until puberty.
When feminists feared the 'lavender menace' of lesbians — and how those lesbians fought back
Lesbians fought homophobia in the feminist movement with humor and heart.
Jan 31, 2026
In the late 1960s and early 1970s, second-wave feminism, a.k.a. women’s liberation, was gathering steam, but it still didn’t have widespread support. Many Americans wondered why feminists would protest the revered Miss America pageant, as they did in 1968. “Women’s lib” was a punch line for comedians, and TV shows often presented feminist characters in a negative light. Amid all this, some feminist leaders were worried that their movement would have an image problem because of the presence of … lesbians.
Betty Friedan was one of the feminists particularly worried about lesbians. Friedan authored The Feminine Mystique, a 1963 book that revealed the dissatisfaction many women felt with traditional roles. It helped inspire second-wave feminism, although it was criticized for its focus on affluent white straight women. In 1966, Friedan and others founded the National Organization for Women, which became the leading U.S. feminist group.
When feminists feared the 'lavender menace' of lesbians — and how those lesbians fought back
Lesbians fought homophobia in the feminist movement with humor and heart.
Interesting in how there are these 2 different aspects, appearance and activity roles that are links to gender, and sexuality that is also linked to gender.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
Rigby - you really have to learn something about the subject.
The source of that claim seems to be a thoroughly debunked study from some years ago that made that statement. There are a number of issues with that so called study.
- the children in question had never been diagnosed with GID (Gender Identity Disorder as it was then known);
- the "researchers" (and I use the term loosely) never attempted to differentiate between transgirls and the stereotypical "girly boy" or between transboys and tomboys. So of course many of those individuals left that behind.
- nobody followed up on the children in the study - if they stopped attending the clinic for any reason (moved, found a new doctor, whatever) they just closed the file and marked it "grew out of it"
On that topic, the medical professionals who work in the field say that children who persistently and consistently insist that their sex and gender do not agree hardly ever grow out of it.
On that topic, girls generally mature earlier than boys so prior to puberty they often have the edge in sports like wresting, jiu jitsu, judo, and so forth.
You might want to take that up with the psychologists and other medical professionals who work in the field. They disagree with that statement.
Gender identity is quite different from sexual orientation.
As I said, children self-identify by gender at a very young age, as early as two or three, long before the idea of sex enters into the picture.
It's safe to say that children don't link them to gender. But adults do. And that's one of the reasons that you'll still see claims that "being trans is just a phase" and "most trans kids grow out of it".
The source of that claim seems to be a thoroughly debunked study from some years ago that made that statement. There are a number of issues with that so called study.
- the children in question had never been diagnosed with GID (Gender Identity Disorder as it was then known);
- the "researchers" (and I use the term loosely) never attempted to differentiate between transgirls and the stereotypical "girly boy" or between transboys and tomboys. So of course many of those individuals left that behind.
- nobody followed up on the children in the study - if they stopped attending the clinic for any reason (moved, found a new doctor, whatever) they just closed the file and marked it "grew out of it"
On that topic, the medical professionals who work in the field say that children who persistently and consistently insist that their sex and gender do not agree hardly ever grow out of it.
I know I am but that refers to musculature and bone structure, not sexual orientation or gender identity.
On that topic, girls generally mature earlier than boys so prior to puberty they often have the edge in sports like wresting, jiu jitsu, judo, and so forth.
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I believe underage are a third type that is inherently passive, are not really male or female.
I believe that before puberty, when they are claiming to be one gender or the other, that is a role playing game based on identifying with or reacting against some adult.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
Gender, like sexual orientation, is not binary (i.e., strictly M/F) and it has nothing to do with "being underage". Gender is perhaps best described as a "spectrum".
So you're saying that all these kids are just role playing? Nonsense
Hardly.
In my experience, almost all gay men had very overbearing mothers, so I feel they are looking for the affection they miss and feel they can't get from women.
With gay women, it seems most had passive fathers and they are looking for more assertive protection they feel they can't get from men.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
First a question - why are you commenting on sexual orientation when the vid is about gender identity. The two are not the same thing.
Secondly, sexual orientation is innate - that is, "those people" were born that way - it's not a function of their environment growing up.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
On June 26, 1994, gay activists paraded a mile-long rainbow banner through the streets of New York City to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the Stonewall riots. The event celebrated LGBTQ+ resilience and the ongoing fight for equality and visibility.
The massive banner symbolized unity and progress within the LGBTQ+ community, drawing thousands of participants and spectators. It highlighted both the historical significance of the 1969 riots and the continued activism needed to challenge discrimination and secure civil rights across the United States.
I am not convinced sexual orientation and gender identity are different things?
Sexual orientation can't be innate or else it would exist from birth and not puberty.
Shiftless2
Well-known member
They're different things. A cis person can be hetero, gay, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, or any other orientation. By the same token a trans individual can be any of those as well.
For example a transwoman can be attracted to men, women, both, neither, whatever exactly the same way a ciswoman can.
What makes you think it only exists from puberty?
To quote George Takei (Sulu from Star Trek)
I do not get how a cis or trans person can have a sexual orientation without also wanting to appear in the complementary role?
Maybe I was a little slow, but my sexuality did not start until puberty.