North Korea Resumes Weapons Activity With Two Cruise-Missile Launches

titan

Member

North Korea Resumes Weapons Activity With Two Cruise-Missile Launches

Pyongyang had largely refrained from weapons tests since June as it battled a Covid-19 outbreak.


North Korea has already demonstrated ruthless determination, with deadly results.
Will this threat to the rest of the world decrease after Pyongyang expands its nuclear reach to planetary scale?

What's being done about it?
What should be done about it?
What will happen when we don't?
 
The NK regime has mostly engaged in silly bluster so far, the worrying thing is committing 100k troops to Ukraine which is possible, they are strengthening ties with Putin with new deals. This is why they need a firm hand.
 
The NK regime has mostly engaged in silly bluster so far ...
I don't recall the most recent NK missile test.
But I gather COVID-19 has imposed a disproportionate burden on NK / KJU.

I suspect the reason is:
in viable Western democracies the trains better run on time (Mussolini allusion secondary).
KJU needn't be too concerned with being voted out of office *. Being killed & eaten is his greater concern.

But because he needn't answer to the people, he's got little skill with handling a crisis such as a pandemic. And since they spend so much on guns, not much left for spending on "butter". Thus COVID-19 difficult for any nation, perhaps more difficult still for the hermit kingdom.
"... the worrying thing is committing 100k troops to Ukraine which is possible, they are strengthening ties with Putin with new deals." O #1
I'm not pretending to be as out of it as one would be if living in sylvan seclusion.
I live in sylvan seclusion, global pandemic only partly to blame.

I've not read of NK's offer of lending Putin a 100k troop complement for Ukraine.
But if it's possible, it's a major issue.
"This is why they need a firm hand." O #2
It's why we need to exercise a firm hand with them? Indeed. Both Putin & Jong Un are daft. Just more troops to be killed to win this current contest between democracy and autocracy.

personal note:
O-meister,
Pappy's name was Oran, pronounced that way, but spelled different. You, Pappy, and Senator Hatch are the only 3 I know.

Welcome to @CV.
Visit often.
Post a lot.
Bring smart friends.
Enjoy the cyber. We've got more.

* Romania's General Secretary Nicolae Ceausescu was tried & convicted of genocide and executed Dec. 25, 1989 Christmas Day
 
ref: O #4
"Dozens of media users claimed over the past few days that as many as 100,000 "volunteers" from North Korea were offered to Moscow for its military operation in Ukraine."

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-north-korea-sending-100k-soldiers-fight-against-ukraine-1731723
I'm guessing wildly. But based on little, I suspect "volunteers" (scare-quotes noted) is a key word.

Context:
I've read North Koreans average several inches shorter than their South Korean brethren. That's not due to genetic deficiency. In Biden's lifetime they were countrymen.
Instead, chronic malnutrition is the explanation.
Problem is, it's not merely physical stature that's affected. North Koreans seem to have malnutrition related mental stature deficiencies as well.

China has a tiger by the tail.
If South Korea & allies were to axe the North Korean regime, China might face a flood of North Korean mental / physical midget refugees flooding in over the border.
 
That sounds like rather an unpleasant assertion about North Koreans.

There are many brave refugees who fled NK who I would never insult - most NKers probably oppose their govt but simply don't want their families killed/sent to camps for having the wrong opinions. They should rise up against the govt and do more to oppose them; but that doesn't mean they deserve to be called 'mental / physical midget refugees'.

It's distasteful to me to insult refugees who are fleeing their despotic countries for a better life and to give their families the lives they deserve; you are one who seems to be pro the Squad - so would have thought you'd share those values.
 
"That sounds like rather an unpleasant assertion about North Koreans." O #6
In the extreme! I've never met anyone that asserted chronic malnutrition is a panacea.
"There are many brave refugees who fled NK who I would never insult" O #6
I wouldn't insult them whether they're refugees or not.

It does not benefit these poor unfortunate souls whose standard of living is such a meager subsistence, to be dismissive of the cruelty they endure.

I tell the truth about them not as an insult, but to bring attention to their dire fate. That's not to "insult" them, but to draw attention to the severity of their deprivation.
Going to bed hungry is no joyous experience.
But being so chronically malnourished as to be physically shrunken by it is catastrophic! Pretending they're not badly off is a disservice to them I'll not be party to.
sear previously posted:

"I've read North Koreans average several inches shorter than their South Korean brethren. That's not due to genetic deficiency. In Biden's lifetime they were countrymen.
Instead, chronic malnutrition is the explanation."
Tragic !

NorthKoreaDefectors170814.JPG
 
I wouldn't insult them whether they're refugees or not.

China might face a flood of North Korean mental / physical midget refugees flooding in over the border.

If that's not a pejorative, what is it?

You're entitled to your opinion of course, am not trying to police free speech or any of that nonsense as I believe in free speech, but I also strongly disagree with what you wrote - and disagree with your assertion that you never insulted them - you referred to them [refugees from NK] in a pejorative sense.

You're welcome to your opinion.
 
If that's not a pejorative, what is it?
"Truth".
Incomprehensibly you seem to think I take glee in honestly reporting the adversities of some of the most deprived humans on Earth, suffering some of the lowest standards of living on Earth? I DO NOT SIR !

Oran:
One of two things is true.
a) Either every one of the 7,000,000,000+ humans on Earth alive today are all and each being treated EXACTLY equally
or not.

b) If not, then some MUST be treated worse than others. You think those in North Korea are NOT?! Based on WHAT?!
You're welcome to your opinion.
It is my "opinion" that every human on Earth including North Koreans should have enough to eat. That's my "opinion".

But in North Korea, the Kim Jong dynasty is starving North Koreans so severely it has reportedly stunted their growth both physically and mentally. How can you possibly get "pejorative" from such a tragic if undeniable reality?
Do you deny North Koreans have a needlessly low standard of living?

If I can't persuade you North Koreans are deprived, perhaps NASA can.

NorthKoreaAtNight.JPG
Does that look to you like the locus of a pampered population?!

pe·jor·a·tive (pĭ-jôrə-tĭv, -jŏr-, pĕjə-rā′tĭv,
adj.
Disparaging; belittling: "The label Neandertal took on a pejorative connotation decades ago; it implied boorishness at best and stupidity at worst" (Craig Stanford).
n.

A disparaging or belittling word or expression.

pe·jora·tive·ly adv.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition copyright ©2022 by HarperCollins Publishers. All rights reserved.

Oran:
It would be pejorative if I called them big fat poopy heads.
It is in absolutely no way whatsoever pejorative to report their terrible plight scientifically.
You're welcome to your opinion.
If you think that North Koreans being severely deprived is purely my "opinion", then why have so many of them fled their ostensible Asian paradise for refuge in South Korea? You can't have it both ways. Please make up your mind. Have tens of thousands of North Koreans fled the adversities of North Korea to take refuge in South Korea, or not?
Your position here is not merely dismissive of the hardships endured in North Korea. If you are not joking, it is spectacularly ignorant, and tragically compassionless.

News Flash:
North Koreans are malnourished. And you dismiss / deny that tragedy by calling it "opinion"?! Why?
What do you have against them?
What do you have against me?
 
Hello Oran, thanks for joining us.
When I opened this topic I was trying to decide whether the title cruise-missile event was a viability test of their own inventory,
or if it was intended to draw attention.

Part of the problem is news displacement. Even though we haven't heard news about North Korea lately, that doesn't mean all is well there. Monkey-pox, wildfire, Trump's classified documents, etc can overshadow news that would otherwise be reported.

Sear, maybe Oran takes issue with the word "midget". I agree with him, that word certainly can be used pejoratively. But your counterpoint is tough to dispute. Life is not easy in North Korea. If you want insight into just how bad it gets in North Korea, do some reading on North Korean prison camp #14 escapee Shin Dong-hyuk. He had it tough, described poking through human feces to find bits of undigested food. He escaped into China, and eventually found his way from China to South Korea. Good that he escaped. But how many more did he leave behind?
 
Do you deny North Koreans have a needlessly low standard of living?

If I can't persuade you North Koreans are deprived, perhaps NASA can.
This is debating in bad faith - at no point did I suggest that North Koreans do not have a low standard of living or aren't deprived; yet you respond as if I did - and simply attack a strawman.

You described them in a pejorative sense especially when you called them physical and mental midgets and pejoratively described them flooding over the border into China.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion and I'm not suggesting anything else, but it certainly read as a pejorative and I won't shift my opinion on that.
 
Hello Oran, thanks for joining us.
When I opened this topic I was trying to decide whether the title cruise-missile event was a viability test of their own inventory,
or if it was intended to draw attention.

Part of the problem is news displacement. Even though we haven't heard news about North Korea lately, that doesn't mean all is well there. Monkey-pox, wildfire, Trump's classified documents, etc can overshadow news that would otherwise be reported.

Sear, maybe Oran takes issue with the word "midget". I agree with him, that word certainly can be used pejoratively. But your counterpoint is tough to dispute. Life is not easy in North Korea. If you want insight into just how bad it gets in North Korea, do some reading on North Korean prison camp #14 escapee Shin Dong-hyuk. He had it tough, described poking through human feces to find bits of undigested food. He escaped into China, and eventually found his way from China to South Korea. Good that he escaped. But how many more did he leave behind?
Indeed.

It's hard to get any true news out of NK, half-truthes are reported by all sides - and it's so mysterious over there - they cover everything up; according to them they had 1 case of COVID-19 for several years etc (and the news anchors shout patriotic gibberish at the cameras :)).

It's hard to fathom their intentions but it's usually just bluster - and I don't think they'll do much unless really threatened, but they are bullies and want to regain power / prestige / a place in the world and new business partners - possibly in the Russians; they share Raison port in NK for example with both the Chinese & the Russians. It's possible therefore that they'd send forces to Ukraine in return for lots of extra help (which they sorely need) from the Russians on a number of fronts - which would piss off their [Russia's] 'frenemy' China - so they're carefully playing it.
I think China and Russia [and NK with China] have the potential to become bitter rivals over things like this - so they need to tread carefully, even China and Russia are in permanent dispute over annexed Outer Manchuria - and China have designs on it; China have been really encroaching on many borders with their neighbours recently and are certainly more expansionist than they have been in a long time, right now.
 
This is debating in bad faith - at no point did I suggest that North Koreans do not have a low standard of living or aren't deprived; yet you respond as if I did - and simply attack a strawman.
You insinuate that I hold an attitude toward North Koreans that you do not, and that my position is so weak it's impossible to provide legitimate justification for it, so concocted fiction, or changed the subject, or ...

- piffle -

The ancients knew it as "cause and affect". There is no falsification whatsoever involved on my part here.
It is the DEPRIVATION that causes the ADVERSITY, in this case stunted growth. You call my mentioning North Korea's low standard of living a "straw man". But that is what CAUSES their diminished growth.

If you have a vocabulary preference to offer as substitute for the word "midget" I welcome any proposal you care to offer, and am prepared to endorse the substitution, if viable.

But yours is a distraction.
- The Kim Jong dynasty inflicts severe hardship on North Koreans.
- These hardships have manifest consequences, severely detrimental to North Koreans. If there's an alternate shade of lipstick you'd like to slap on that pig please be my guest. It changes nothing.
"You described them in a pejorative sense especially when you called them physical and mental midgets and pejoratively described them flooding over the border into China." O #11
I've never been to North Korea. Have you?
I'm basing my comments on the picture I've assembled from numerous puzzle pieces from a variety of sources.

Does it surprise you that the human brain needs nutrition just as the rest of the human body does?
Does it surprise you that if their physical growth is so stunted North Koreans average inches shorter than South Koreans (in many cases their own blood kin) that both their brains (the organic manifestation) and their minds (mental capability) are compromised to comparable degree?

Do you dispute this? Based on what? If chronic malnutrition has no affect, why does the U.N. and other humanitarian organizations have food programs to feed the poor? Because they don't know where the yacht store is?
"You described them in a pejorative sense especially when you called them physical and mental midgets and pejoratively described them flooding over the border into China." O #11
China has self-interest too, just as the U.S. has. Those specific self-interests between China and the U.S. may differ. That doesn't mean they don't have them.
And having an impoverished totalitarian dictatorship directly on China's own border is not a panacea.
SURELY China prefers North Korea to South Korea. North Korea functions as a buffer, a barrier between the appealing, attractive West, an embarrassment to China's leadership.

China could benefit if its North Korea problem were mitigated, or eliminated. BUT !!
China's politburo understands, ending the Kim Jong regime in North Korea might cause a flood of refugees. You understand that they understand that, right?

But you prefer to criticize me for stating this fact.

I didn't state this unassailed fact to exceed your comfort level.
I included it to demonstrate but one of the complications of bringing Western prosperity to this strife-soaked region. "Blame the messenger"? Really ?!
"it certainly read as a pejorative and I won't shift my opinion on that." O #11
I'll let the truth speak for itself. How can inerrant fact be pejorative?
"It's hard to get any true news out of NK, half-truthes are reported by all sides - and it's so mysterious over there - they cover everything up" O #12
It's absolutely true we don't know everything.
But we certainly know enough. If North of the DMZ were paradise why have tens of thousands of North Koreans risked their lives to escape it?
"It's hard to fathom their intentions but it's usually just bluster" O #12
"Usually", so the Korean War was merely an exception?

"Usually" because for most of history North Korea has lacked nuclear weapons, and the intercontinental delivery systems to threaten the E.U., NATO, & etc with them.
Therefore "usually" doesn't apply anymore.

And it is exceedingly dangerous to allow nuclear weapons into the hands of such a monster. MAD doesn't work against suicidal / genocidal adversaries.

straw man
n.
1. An argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated.

[From the making of sham human figures out of bundles of straw, as for use as scarecrows or practice targets .]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition copyright ©2022 by HarperCollins Publishers. All rights reserved.


maybe Oran takes issue with the word "midget". I agree with him, that word certainly can be used pejoratively. But ...
You're both right. It's not factually incorrect. It's "attention getting". That's not incidental. It was emphatically deliberate. If you'll pardon a seemingly Christian tangent on my part (I am not Christian) North Koreans are humans, and in the humanitarian sense they are our brothers. Republicans whose noses are glued to FOX NEWS channel do so by their own choice. Difficult for me to harbor much pity for them. They're big boys & girls. If they want to change the channel, I think they can figure out a way.
The North Koreans can't just "change the channel". Their tragic plight so severe it stunts their growth leaves them very few options. Only a fortunate if tiny minority has escaped to more civilized, more hospitable territory.
“There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea.” President Trump 2018, after his poorly prepared summit w/ NK/KJU
What a pity madmen aren't confined to North Korea alone.
 
The American colonists gave up trying to get sensible treatment from King George III.
Lucky for them, and us.
The U.S. exists today at the will of its People, for their own mutual benefit. Their constitution begins "We the People ...".

In contrast North Korea exists mainly for the indulgence of Kim Jong Un, a ruthless dictator, at the expense of millions of his countrymen. Not easy to present that as a pretty picture.
 
You insinuate that I hold an attitude toward North Koreans that you do not, and that my position is so weak it's impossible to provide legitimate justification for it, so concocted fiction, or changed the subject, or ...

- piffle -

The ancients knew it as "cause and affect". There is no falsification whatsoever involved on my part here.
It is the DEPRIVATION that causes the ADVERSITY, in this case stunted growth. You call my mentioning North Korea's low standard of living a "straw man". But that is what CAUSES their diminished growth.

If you have a vocabulary preference to offer as substitute for the word "midget" I welcome any proposal you care to offer, and am prepared to endorse the substitution, if viable.

But yours is a distraction.
- The Kim Jong dynasty inflicts severe hardship on North Koreans.
- These hardships have manifest consequences, severely detrimental to North Koreans. If there's an alternate shade of lipstick you'd like to slap on that pig please be my guest. It changes nothing.

I've never been to North Korea. Have you?
I'm basing my comments on the picture I've assembled from numerous puzzle pieces from a variety of sources.

Does it surprise you that the human brain needs nutrition just as the rest of the human body does?
Does it surprise you that if their physical growth is so stunted North Koreans average inches shorter than South Koreans (in many cases their own blood kin) that both their brains (the organic manifestation) and their minds (mental capability) are compromised to comparable degree?

Do you dispute this? Based on what? If chronic malnutrition has no affect, why does the U.N. and other humanitarian organizations have food programs to feed the poor? Because they don't know where the yacht store is?

China has self-interest too, just as the U.S. has. Those specific self-interests between China and the U.S. may differ. That doesn't mean they don't have them.
And having an impoverished totalitarian dictatorship directly on China's own border is not a panacea.
SURELY China prefers North Korea to South Korea. North Korea functions as a buffer, a barrier between the appealing, attractive West, an embarrassment to China's leadership.

China could benefit if its North Korea problem were mitigated, or eliminated. BUT !!
China's politburo understands, ending the Kim Jong regime in North Korea might cause a flood of refugees. You understand that they understand that, right?

But you prefer to criticize me for stating this fact.

I didn't state this unassailed fact to exceed your comfort level.
I included it to demonstrate but one of the complications of bringing Western prosperity to this strife-soaked region. "Blame the messenger"? Really ?!

I'll let the truth speak for itself. How can inerrant fact be pejorative?

It's absolutely true we don't know everything.
But we certainly know enough. If North of the DMZ were paradise why have tens of thousands of North Koreans risked their lives to escape it?

"Usually", so the Korean War was merely an exception?

"Usually" because for most of history North Korea has lacked nuclear weapons, and the intercontinental delivery systems to threaten the E.U., NATO, & etc with them.
Therefore "usually" doesn't apply anymore.

And it is exceedingly dangerous to allow nuclear weapons into the hands of such a monster. MAD doesn't work against suicidal / genocidal adversaries.

straw man
n.
1. An argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated.

[From the making of sham human figures out of bundles of straw, as for use as scarecrows or practice targets .]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition copyright ©2022 by HarperCollins Publishers. All rights reserved.



You're both right. It's not factually incorrect. It's "attention getting". That's not incidental. It was emphatically deliberate. If you'll pardon a seemingly Christian tangent on my part (I am not Christian) North Koreans are humans, and in the humanitarian sense they are our brothers. Republicans whose noses are glued to FOX NEWS channel do so by their own choice. Difficult for me to harbor much pity for them. They're big boys & girls. If they want to change the channel, I think they can figure out a way.
The North Koreans can't just "change the channel". Their tragic plight so severe it stunts their growth leaves them very few options. Only a fortunate if tiny minority has escaped to more civilized, more hospitable territory.

What a pity madmen aren't confined to North Korea alone.
So "mental and physical midgets" wasn't meant pejoratively.

For some strange reason, I don't believe you, but at least you have this Rampage fella on your side with the rubbish strawman that I think North Korea is civilised, North Koreans are well-nourished, Kim Jong Un is the good guy (etc).


If it makes you feel better to believe that, then more power to your elbow.
 
Back
Top