The war in Iran (or whose war is it anyways?)

sear said:
This evening NBC-TV News reports Iran demands:
- The U.S. never threaten or insult Iran in any language
- Withdraw its military forces from around Iran
- Lift sanctions and pay back assets to Iran

President Trump has a tiger by the tail.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, what Iran is demanding is simply justice.
It is illegal to threaten or insult any country.
It is illegal to commit terrorism by placing our troops in threatening positions.
It is illegal to impose economic sanctions.

And I say that without looking up actual legislation, but instead by going with the basic understanding of it being illegal to violate inherent human rights.
 
Rigby5 said:
Since over 50% of our discretionary federal spending is on the military, obviously the $39 trillion national debt is from munitions.
Which we need to stop if we do not want to go bankrupt.
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The US is already bankrupt. The unfunded liabilities for Social Security and medicare exceed the value of all real property in the US.
 
Shiftless2 said:
The US is already bankrupt. The unfunded liabilities for Social Security and medicare exceed the value of all real property in the US.
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Could be, but they can cut Social Security payments and Medicare services if they have to.
What I think will be the death knell will be when we fail to keep up with interest payments, so no one is willing to finance our annual deficit any longer.
I do not know when that will happen.
I did not think we could even get to a $39 trillion national debt.
I do not understand why this is not a bigger concern?
 
Rigby5 said:
"Oddly enough, what Iran is demanding is simply justice." R5 #381
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"Odd" indeed.
It exposes Trump as a spectacularly bumbling incompetent.
Iran was vastly less a problem before Trump undertook to teach Iran a lesson.

Rigby5 said:
"It is illegal to threaten or insult any country." R5 #381
Click to expand...
I suspect that depends on the details, in some cases yes, in other cases no.
Is it wrong for the West to caution mainland China to respect the wishes of those living in Taiwan?

Rigby5 said:
"It is illegal to commit terrorism by placing our troops in threatening positions." R5 #381
Click to expand...
Some U.S. military installations outside conventional U.S. sovereign territory is defensive, though not all.

Rigby5 said:
"It is illegal to impose economic sanctions." R5 #381
Click to expand...
I believe congress has not merely the authority but the responsibility to establish U.S. trade policy.
It seems President Trump has intruded the exec. into this legislative realm.

Rigby5 said:
"And I say that without looking up actual legislation, but instead by going with the basic understanding of it being illegal to violate inherent human rights." R5 #381
Click to expand...
Think it through.
The U.S. has the authority to commit to a free trade treaty. That authority, but no other?
 
Shiftless2 said:
"Smart move - they know he won't keep his word" S2 #386
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Trump is a liar.
Trump has already broken U.S. word to Iran by unilateral withdrawal from Obama's JCPOA.
Trump dismissed the Obama administration's 7 nation agreement with Iran, Trump claiming he could do better.
Tuesday August 11 that seems vanishingly unlikely.

Shiftless2 said:
"Iran rules out future negotiations with the Trump administration ..." #386
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This is not the first time Iran has done this to the U.S.
During the 444 day long Iranian hostage crisis of the Carter administration, Iran refused to release its U.S. captives until after President Carter was succeeded
by President Reagan.

Trump is an ignorant buffoon. Iranian leadership understands this.
 
sear said:
"Odd" indeed.
It exposes Trump as a spectacularly bumbling incompetent.
Iran was vastly less a problem before Trump undertook to teach Iran a lesson.


I suspect that depends on the details, in some cases yes, in other cases no.
Is it wrong for the West to caution mainland China to respect the wishes of those living in Taiwan?


Some U.S. military installations outside conventional U.S. sovereign territory is defensive, though not all.


I believe congress has not merely the authority but the responsibility to establish U.S. trade policy.
It seems President Trump has intruded the exec. into this legislative realm.


Think it through.
The U.S. has the authority to commit to a free trade treaty. That authority, but no other?
Click to expand...

What is interesting about Taiwan is that before the US tried to install Chang Kai Shek in China after WWII, the population of Taiwan was actually culturally Japanese.
The population was against the Republic of China government the US imposed as a dictatorship until around the 1990s.

The Declaration of Independence claims that the only actual source of legal authority comes from the rights of individuals to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
So all the federal government can do as far as "trade policy" is defend the rights of individuals.
That would not allow for things like economic sanctions, such as how we tried to starve Cuba.
The feds to not have the authority to harm Cubans or US businessmen who were making a living off trade with Cuba.
 
Rigby5 said:
"What is interesting about Taiwan is that before the US tried to install Chang Kai Shek in China after WWII, the population of Taiwan was actually culturally Japanese." R5 #388
Click to expand...
I did not know that.

Rigby5 said:
"The population was against the Republic of China government the US imposed as a dictatorship until around the 1990s." R5 #388
Click to expand...
?
I don't know the history of the region well enough to understand the difference between PRC relations w/ Taiwan vs Hong Kong.

Rigby5 said:
"The Declaration of Independence claims that the only actual source of legal authority comes from the rights of individuals to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness." R5 #388
Click to expand...
Jefferson penned that rights are not gifts from government but are creator endowed, government's role is to protect those rights.

Rigby5 said:
"So all the federal government can do as far as "trade policy" is defend the rights of individuals." R5 #388
Click to expand...
Governments are charged with attending to the needs of the People.
U.S. federal government is our international liaison.
It requires the authority to attend to the details of our international relations.
Its track record is blemished, in precipitous decline in recent years.

Rigby5 said:
"That would not allow for things like economic sanctions, such as how we tried to starve Cuba." R5 #388
Click to expand...
Trump administration abuse of Cuba is disgraceful.
I'd have hoped Secretary of State Rubio might have talked some sense into the president.
Easier said than done apparently.
 
sear said:
I did not know that.


?
I don't know the history of the region well enough to understand the difference between PRC relations w/ Taiwan vs Hong Kong.


Jefferson penned that rights are not gifts from government but are creator endowed, government's role is to protect those rights.


Governments are charged with attending to the needs of the People.
U.S. federal government is our international liaison.
It requires the authority to attend to the details of our international relations.
Its track record is blemished, in precipitous decline in recent years.


Trump administration abuse of Cuba is disgraceful.
I'd have hoped Secretary of State Rubio might have talked some sense into the president.
Easier said than done apparently.
Click to expand...

The reason arbitrary economic sanctions are illegal is because they harm the rights of individuals.
Lets say a US citizen makes a living by retailing Cuban cigars he buys wholesale from Cuba.
Then the arbitrary US economic sanctions destroy his means of survival, harming his life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Economic sanctions could only legally be justified if for some reason they were necessary in order to protect the rights of others somehow.
But economic sanctions almost never could actually do that, and instead are more like the illegal starvation blockade that the Geneva Conventions specifically forbids.

The trouble with Rubio is that is a descendant of the Cuban aristocracy that fled Castro to Miami.
He likes the illegal economic sanctions on Cuba.
{...

Rubio Escalates Cuba Pressure. A Sanctions Campaign Is Set To Target Every ‘Escape Valve’​

The campaign represents one of the most aggressive U.S. efforts against Cuba in decades.​

By Matias Civita
Published 08/07/26
...}
https://www.ibtimes.com/rubio-escal...ampaign-set-target-every-escape-valve-3806183
 
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