The U.F.O. / Extraterrestrial Debate: Are They Out There? If So, Where ?

Two separate issues:
a) Does extraterrestrial life equal to or more advanced than on Earth, exist elsewhere in the cosmos?

b) If so, where are they? Why isn't one of their flying saucers illegally parked in your back yard right now?

Have you ever seen a U.F.O.? Ever encountered an E.T.?

If there are no other compulsively innovative sentients elsewhere in the cosmos, and the nearest thing to life as we think of it is natural inanimate crystal growth, or perhaps an E.T. approximation of terrestrial pond scum
should that inform our casual attitude toward life on Earth? Like that demonstrated today in Ukraine, or Gaza? Human life is expendable?

“The entire universe is a form of life.” astronomer / author / professor Bob Berman 19/04/04

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Drake equation, equation that purports to yield the number N of technically advanced civilizations in the Milky Way Galaxy as a function of other astronomical, biological, and psychological factors. (Read Carl Sagan’s Britannica entry on extraterrestrial life.)
Formulated in large part by the U.S. astrophysicist Frank Drake, it was first discussed in 1961 at a conference on the “search for extraterrestrial intelligence” (SETI), held at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in Green Bank, W.Va. The equation states N = R*f<em>p</em>n<em>e</em>f<em>l</em>f<em>i</em>f<em>c</em>L.

note:
UFO Unidentified Flying Object, called also UAP, unidentified aerial phenomenon, unidentified anomalous phenomenon

Glad to see you referenced the Drake Equation. Unfortunately all the variables used there are largely blind guesses (stabs in the dark).

And don't forget that if SETI does detect radio signals they were likely sent millions of years ago since it would take that long for them to reach us. And, since one of the variables in the Drake Equation is time, it's probable that whoever sent them is no longer with us.

And that leads us to the Fermi Paradox:

The Fermi Paradox is the discrepancy between the high probability that extraterrestrial civilizations exist and the lack of evidence for them. The paradox questions why, given the vastness of the universe and the potential for life, we haven't encountered any advanced alien species or their technology. Its core is Enrico Fermi's simple question: "Where is everybody?". The paradox suggests that either our assumptions about the prevalence of life or the ability to detect it are incorrect.

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And from Wiki

Shiftless2 said:

"... the Drake Equation. Unfortunately all the variables used there are largely blind guesses (stabs in the dark)." S2 #2

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Indeed.

Shiftless2 said:

(stabs in the dark)

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Oh! An outer space joke!

Shiftless2 said:

"And don't forget that if SETI does detect radio signals they were likely sent millions of years ago since it would take that long for them to reach us." S2

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Indisputable proof E.T.'s are more patient on the telephone than humans.

Shiftless2 said:

"And that leads us to the Fermi Paradox:" S2 #2

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Thank you S2.
Seems to me a little Drake equationish, dividing a suspicion arrived at by speculation into components.

If I may squeeze a third in here:
From early age humans are taught space and time separately, perhaps falsely imparting the impression they are more separate than astrophysicists understand: space/time, 3 familiar spacial dimensions, plus the 4th dimension, time.

The following may not rise above cocktail party chit-chat, but here goes: if there are time travelers, why haven't we encountered any from our own future, dialing back to say hello?

One rather obvious detail,
Earth's orbital speed around the sun: 66,615.96 mph. source: More from Wikipedia
If Bruce built a time machine in his basement, and turned the knob on it back 3 days, and hit the "GO!" button, 3 days ago Earth was over 4 million miles elsewhere.
Without all the right equipment, that's a lethal scenario for Bruce.

note:
Based on our current knowledge, the speed of light (SOL) is a brick-wall limit to speed. BUT !
a) SOL is a limit imposed by space on matter, & quantum particles like photons. It does not apparently limit the rate of the expansion of space itself.
b) Quantum phenomena are not confined to SOL as light & gravity are. That's why entwined or “entangled” particles such as those from beta borate can mirror one another, regardless of the distance between them. [source: unknown]
Whether in our distant future humans will harness this for instantaneous space travel over millions of light-years of space, is currently little more than sci-fi speculation.

"... a clock that is moving [accelerating] closer & closer to the speed of light (SOL) will tick at a slower & slower rate. If that clock were moving literally at the speed of light, it would never tick at all. No time would pass for that object that moves at exactly the speed of light." physicist / historian David Kaiser MIT -PBS Nova: Particles Unknown

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sear said:

If Bruce built a time machine in his basement, and turned the knob on it back 3 days, and hit the "GO!" button, 3 days ago Earth was over 4 million miles elsewhere.
Without all the right equipment, that's a lethal scenario for Bruce.

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That's why any functioning time machine would have to be able to travel thru space as well as time.

So when inputting coordinates for your target you'd need to tell the machine where you wanted to land as well as when.

But, for those who still want to go ....

Shiftless2 said:

"So when inputting coordinates for your target you'd need to tell the machine where you wanted to land as well as when.
But, for those who still want to go ...." S2 #4

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It seems plausible that such additional space / time consideration must be included when calculating time-travel, but
I'm not sure we yet have enough information to know if we know all we need to know.

Shiftless2 said:

"Interested in time travel? ..." #4 View attachment 2395

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- hoorah -

note:
For those not clear on why time is the 4th dimension, consider the dentist appointment example.
Bruce lives in XYZT city.
To get to dentist's office Bruce must travel to A Street, then turn onto B Avenue for the correct address. BUT
the Bruce must climb the stairs to floor #C (representing the familiar 3 axis spacial coordinates). BUT
to be punctual Bruce must arrive at 2:30 (tooth hurty, get it? ), thus to keep his appointment Bruce
must traverse the 3 axes of his city, plus be on time, the 4th dimension. "Space / time".

Has humanity overlooked a practical opportunity here?
The Star Trek fantasy, a galactic Winnebago chugging about the Milky Way solving one dire crisis among humanoid E.T.s after another, conveniently in one hour minus commercials.
The flaw in this optimistic fantasy is the sci-fi premise that there are so many other humanoid civilizations within convenient travel distance, it's akin to an excursion from Philly to Peoria.

For purpose of "literature" this may be classified as "science-fiction". In reality, it's vastly more fiction than science. BUT !!

There are already civilizations within reach that we've substantially back-handed, ignored.
Ants live in colonies, and have communication skills the layman may not know. Honey bees?

There have been a few experiments in recent past.
Would it make sense to complete studies of terrestrial species with highly developed brains? Cetaceans an obvious example.

a) We can't know whether such information would be useful or not, until after we've collected and analyzed it.
b) If it's too much work (dismissed as not worth it) what would our prospect be if Earth does encounter humanoid E.T.'s technologically equal or superior to us?

Wouldn't it make sense to get a little practice, rather than baptism by fire? - OR -

Does it make more sense to view this issue within scientific probability context? Even if they're out there, they're not planning to visit, and without gargantuan scientific breakthrough, we're not likely ever to drop in on them.

sear said:

Even if they're out there, they're not planning to visit, and without gargantuan scientific breakthrough, we're not likely ever to drop in on them.

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A much more likely scenario

Shiftless2 said:

A much more likely scenario
Mr. & Mrs. green

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I'd have rated this graphic about average, until I noticed the 8-ball / billiard ball shift knob. HA ! - classy aliens -

Also cute, the windshield-mounted rear-view mirror was removed for the pic. Let us all hope they don't drive through interstellar space like that.
Not sure why shotgun's wearin' a sheriff's badge.
In case anyone exceeds the speed of light?

The speed of light is not merely a good idea. It's the LAW !

sear said:

Not sure why shotgun's wearin' a sheriff's badge.

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Haven't you ever seen a science fiction show where those badges are communicators?

Shiftless2 said:

"Haven't you ever seen a science fiction show where those badges are communicators?" S2 #9

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- ah -
You make a point my cyber-friend, in fact, 5 of them.

"Scotty! Beam me! Jim Beam, make it a double. And tell Uhura to wear something slinky.